|
Post by JohnV on Oct 20, 2017 12:35:09 GMT
A strange and inacurate thing to say .... unsatisfactory visibility.
Sabina has excellent visibility from the steering position for a vessel of it's size and type.
You forget that from the top of the bulwarks on the bow it is over eight feet to the waterline. anything that is only a couple of feet high disappears some ten or fifteen metres in front of me and only re appears to the side of the bow when almost level.
|
|
|
Post by thebfg on Oct 20, 2017 12:52:35 GMT
A strange and inacurate thing to say .... unsatisfactory visibility. Sabina has excellent visibility from the steering position for a vessel of it's size and type. You forget that from the top of the bulwarks on the bow it is over eight feet to the waterline. anything that is only a couple of feet high disappears some ten or fifteen metres in front of me and only re appears to the side of the bow when almost level. Hence when anything that goes across the shipping channels here infont of a ship. I cant remember the distance but it is half a mile or so gets a ticking off by the fun police or dragged in front of the harbour master. Sail or no sail
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 14:37:01 GMT
For recreational vessels under 24m (not ships) there is a requirement in the RCD* to have good all round visibility. there's an ISO number (11591) but I don't know the exact angles of view required. Google reveals that one would have to purchase the ISO document. Sorry if I am innaccurate regarding Sabina H. Yes I have been aboard and I know how high the bows are. Usually with high bows the Helm would be positioned higher to improve visbility. The wheelhouse seems to me to be a little low down leading to a fairly large "blind spot" arc. I don't know a lot about it - i expect its fine and apologise if it appeared to be a criticism. I'll shut up now ! *I do know not all boats have to pass the RCD.
|
|
|
Post by kris on Oct 20, 2017 14:43:02 GMT
I did think the rcd only applied to new boats?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 14:48:19 GMT
Yes but I was wondering about insurance and visibility. I wouldn't be surprised if insurance companies adopted some sort of standard.
I did find out that you need to see the water not less than 50m in front. I thought it was less than that so I expect Sabina is fine.
|
|
|
Post by kris on Oct 20, 2017 14:55:30 GMT
Yes but I was wondering about insurance and visibility. I wouldn't be surprised if insurance companies adopted some sort of standard. I did find out that you need to see the water not less than 50m in front. I thought it was less than that so I expect Sabina is fine. I understand what your saying. But for bigger boats it's difficult. I haven't been on sabina H, but I'd imagine it has no worse visibility than comparable vessals. When it comes to small unpowered craft especially on canals, they don't seem to realise the realty of their situation as compared to say my boat. Approx40 tons of moving boat that can't stop quickly and needs to keep making headway to have some steerage.
|
|
|
Post by bargemast on Oct 20, 2017 16:08:50 GMT
For the European regulations (may not be the same in the UK) it says that the visibility from the steering position has to be unobstructed all around, the dead angle in front of the bows is not allowed to be more for the helmsman than twice the boat lenght or 250 m, which ever distance is the shortest.
Looking at the photograph of "Sabina-H" on page 4, she should be fine.
Small boats zig zagging in front of the high bows of an empty barge are a bloody nuissance, the people on these boats have no idea how dangerous they are, I have several times taken 1 or 2 of the crew of the smaller boats that I shared locks with on the Seine on board of my barge, only to show them how little (nothing) I could see of their boat.
I'm 100% sure that from then on they've been much more careful in hanging around right in front of a following barge.
Peter
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 16:59:15 GMT
For the European regulations (may not be the same in the UK) it says that the visibility from the steering position has to be unobstructed all around, the dead angle in front of the bows is not allowed to be more for the helmsman than twice the boat lenght or 250 m, which ever distance is the shortest. Looking at the photograph of "Sabina-H" on page 4, she should be fine. Small boats zig zagging in front of the high bows of an empty barge are a bloody nuissance, the people on these boats have no idea how dangerous they are, I have several times taken 1 or 2 of the crew of the smaller boats that I shared locks with on the Seine on board of my barge, only to show them how little (nothing) I could see of their boat. I'm 100% sure that from then on they've been much more careful in hanging around right in front of a following barge. Peter Thanks Peter I saw a similar condition in the ISO which is slightly different but I think its used for RCD compliance. So if used in the EU the skipper on Sabina H would need to be able to see the water surface 40m ahead (20m boat), so probably fine. The ISO says 50m www.google.co.uk/url?q=https://www.imci.org/site/document/applications_checklists/Checklists/Checklist%252011591%2520Vision%2520field%2520en101001.pdf&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjMgYnG1P_WAhXLVxoKHdp6C0MQFggaMAU&usg=AOvVaw060NLQS-YXRtHpjyOhFR-GI don't think there is a visibility requirement in the Uk which is what my original comment was based on. There are a couple of large hotel boats on the Thames with ridiculous arrangements (African queen and the Magna Carta) both large dutch barges with double decked cabins and stupid helm positions. I think its some sort of loophole.
|
|
|
Post by bargemast on Oct 20, 2017 17:06:45 GMT
For the European regulations (may not be the same in the UK) it says that the visibility from the steering position has to be unobstructed all around, the dead angle in front of the bows is not allowed to be more for the helmsman than twice the boat lenght or 250 m, which ever distance is the shortest. Looking at the photograph of "Sabina-H" on page 4, she should be fine. Small boats zig zagging in front of the high bows of an empty barge are a bloody nuissance, the people on these boats have no idea how dangerous they are, I have several times taken 1 or 2 of the crew of the smaller boats that I shared locks with on the Seine on board of my barge, only to show them how little (nothing) I could see of their boat. I'm 100% sure that from then on they've been much more careful in hanging around right in front of a following barge. Peter Thanks Peter I saw a similar condition in the ISO which is slightly different but I think its used for RCD compliance. So if used in the EU the skipper on Sabina H would need to be able to see the water surface 40m ahead (20m boat), so probably fine. The ISO says 50m www.google.co.uk/url?q=https://www.imci.org/site/document/applications_checklists/Checklists/Checklist%252011591%2520Vision%2520field%2520en101001.pdf&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjMgYnG1P_WAhXLVxoKHdp6C0MQFggaMAU&usg=AOvVaw060NLQS-YXRtHpjyOhFR-GI don't think there is a visibility requirement in the Uk which is what my original comment was based on. There are a couple of large hotel boats on the Thames with ridiculous arrangements (African queen and the Magna Carta) both large dutch barges with double decked cabins and stupid helm positions. I think its some sort of loophole. Overhere for safety reason, and also for more relaxed navigation there where smaller craft are playing too, most barges have a small camera at the bows, which makes life a lot easier, also when the locks have to be filled with as many barges and boats as possible, as a small camera will enable you to see how far (close) you are from the gates or the stern of another barge, and there's no more need to just guess and hope while you see nothing anymore. On one of my barges I'd made a sort of periscope which greatly helped with reducing the dead angle. Peter Enregistrer
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 17:08:21 GMT
Yes I thought John had fitted one of these as I said in an earlier post. I think I would if I had a larger barge than my current one.
|
|
|
Post by cygnus on Oct 28, 2017 8:47:22 GMT
insert code here
|
|
|
Post by kris on Oct 28, 2017 8:54:23 GMT
Ah safely back in Goole then.
|
|
|
Post by cygnus on Oct 28, 2017 9:06:20 GMT
Sorry Kris, I should have said taken a couple of weeks ago in Goole by Alan Gardiner of Humber Sloop Phyllis.
|
|
|
Post by kris on Oct 28, 2017 11:33:30 GMT
Sorry Kris, I should have said taken a couple of weeks ago in Goole by Alan Gardiner of Humber Sloop Phyllis. no worries
|
|
|
Post by patty on Oct 28, 2017 12:46:50 GMT
Its a lovely pic...
|
|