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Post by journeyperson on Apr 25, 2016 19:02:27 GMT
I was at my partners mum and stepdad yesterday she is an ex labour MEP and getting increasingly panicky about Brexit Dave says they will emigrate I laughed and said I suspect without us and our money the EU would collapse. Her worry who would pay her pension mmmmmmm! Please please lets all vote out for a change for the better we have been very successful as a country before, and its only since the EU that our fortunes have changed, we were conned! If you think about it, this country was at its weakest around 1972 to 1982, the years when we were first in the Common Market; 3 day weeks, powercuts, strikes, having to run to the IMF for a loan. It has been since that time that UK has found its feet again and become prosperous (by comparison), during the years that the EU has moved closer to political Union. You can decide for yourself why that has been. I'm talking as a leave voter too.
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Post by peterboat on Apr 25, 2016 23:49:59 GMT
Having watched newsnight tonight once again you see the bias the BBC has to the inners!! Europol heard of it? same as Interpol but not as big and twice as expensive! set up by the EU instead of fully funding what was already there creating more high powered high paid jobs at whose expense why all of the EU of course with us being the 2nd highest payer mmmmmmm. Did any of the arguments convince me we would be less safe outside the EU? of course not because the BBC cleverly avoided questions like that by not allowing them to be asked.
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Post by macwolfelee on Apr 26, 2016 14:44:14 GMT
I laughed and said I suspect without us and our money the EU would collapse! You have just put very well one of the main reasons why I shall be voting to remain a member.
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 26, 2016 14:51:09 GMT
"I'm with you, I would love to see it lead to us getting back to our roots, farming, industry lets get those factories back."
Don't forget flint knapping!
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Post by Phil on Apr 26, 2016 14:52:01 GMT
I laughed and said I suspect without us and our money the EU would collapse! You have just put very well one of the main reasons why I shall be voting to remain a member. Oh well, when we leave and your country votes for independence you can spend your money keeping it afloat. Presuming of course your country has any money or that they even let you in.
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Post by macwolfelee on Apr 26, 2016 15:10:35 GMT
You have just put very well one of the main reasons why I shall be voting to remain a member. Oh well, when we leave and your country votes for independence you can spend your money keeping it afloat. Presuming of course your country has any money or that they even let you in. I don't want independence for Scotland any more than I want it for the UK. I voted against it. I even voted against devolution back in the day. Next week I will be voting Tory (in the Scottish elections) for the first time in my life because locally they are the only ones capable of giving the SNP a fright, and I have heard of other lifelong Liberal and Labour supporters thinking of doing the same.
The SNP are weirdly inconsistent in wanting independence from the UK but not from Europe.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 15:11:23 GMT
I laughed and said I suspect without us and our money the EU would collapse! You have just put very well one of the main reasons why I shall be voting to remain a member. Someone said you were a Scotsman and if thats true and I only mention it because I consider Scotland more Politically Aware at an earlier age than the rest of the UK,do you ever consider you have it wrong? We have both put our case but again I can't get over the fact you keep on raising the welfare of the rest of Europe after a Brexit that selfless concern for the welfare of others,I don't know what to say exept we can never agree.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 17:26:06 GMT
I see the press are reporting two F22 Raptor Jets have been flown to Romania this evening by the Americans in order to deter Russian agression in the Ukraine.These Jets can destroy surface and air targets without detection. Against this backdrop it is easy to see the relevance of Romania looking to join the EU and why Obama is against the EU possibly fragmenting.
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Post by peterboat on Apr 26, 2016 20:17:04 GMT
I see the press are reporting two F22 Raptor Jets have been flown to Romania this evening by the Americans in order to deter Russian agression in the Ukraine.These Jets can destroy surface and air targets without detection. Against this backdrop it is easy to see the relevance of Romania looking to join the EU and why Obama is against the EU possibly fragmenting. I do worry that the EU is trying to hard to get the buffer countries that surround Russia to join the EU, its like poking a very big bear with a short stick!! Sure to end in tears and the bear full of easy to eat fools
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Post by journeyperson on Apr 26, 2016 20:33:52 GMT
I see the press are reporting two F22 Raptor Jets have been flown to Romania this evening by the Americans in order to deter Russian agression in the Ukraine.These Jets can destroy surface and air targets without detection. Against this backdrop it is easy to see the relevance of Romania looking to join the EU and why Obama is against the EU possibly fragmenting. Yes, fear of EU fragmentation is the crux of US desire to see us stay in, nothing to do with trade deals. They want us to stay in and help prop up a failing organisation to deter Putin. It's going to be a fairly close vote, whichever way it goes and like the Scots with the Scottish referendum, we should be able to demand some fundamental changes afterwards if the vote is to remain and maybe even offer trade and defence treaties as a non-member ally if we vote to leave.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 20:45:22 GMT
I see the press are reporting two F22 Raptor Jets have been flown to Romania this evening by the Americans in order to deter Russian agression in the Ukraine.These Jets can destroy surface and air targets without detection. Against this backdrop it is easy to see the relevance of Romania looking to join the EU and why Obama is against the EU possibly fragmenting. Yes, fear of EU fragmentation is the crux of US desire to see us stay in, nothing to do with trade deals. They want us to stay in and help prop up a failing organisation to deter Putin. It's going to be a fairly close vote, whichever way it goes and like the Scots with the Scottish referendum, we should be able to demand some fundamental changes afterwards if the vote is to remain and maybe even offer trade and defence treaties as a non-member ally if we vote to leave. In light of Obamas visit last week and how he threatened the out camp. Do you think he would have won more people over with the fragmentation argument? I must say its one that Macwolfelee has stated on this thread previously. Politically it would have been a suicidal argument to make possibly.
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Post by peterboat on Apr 26, 2016 20:53:12 GMT
Yes, fear of EU fragmentation is the crux of US desire to see us stay in, nothing to do with trade deals. They want us to stay in and help prop up a failing organisation to deter Putin. It's going to be a fairly close vote, whichever way it goes and like the Scots with the Scottish referendum, we should be able to demand some fundamental changes afterwards if the vote is to remain and maybe even offer trade and defence treaties as a non-member ally if we vote to leave. In light of Obamas visit last week and how he threatened the out camp. Do you think he would have won more people over with the fragmentation argument? I must say its one that Macwolfelee has stated on this thread previously. Politically it would have been a suicidal argument to make possibly. I think he has annoyed a lot of people with his posturing and threats it could be the undoing of the inners, nobody likes to be told what they must do by someone who doesnt face the consequences.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Apr 26, 2016 21:01:20 GMT
I see the press are reporting two F22 Raptor Jets have been flown to Romania this evening by the Americans in order to deter Russian agression in the Ukraine.These Jets can destroy surface and air targets without detection. Against this backdrop it is easy to see the relevance of Romania looking to join the EU and why Obama is against the EU possibly fragmenting. I do worry that the EU is trying to hard to get the buffer countries that surround Russia to join the EU, its like poking a very big bear with a short stick!! Sure to end in tears and the bear full of easy to eat fools Oh yes, the eu has already encroached into eastern Europe and the Baltic States, now it has its eye on Ukraine in order to cut off Russia's access to the Black Sea ports. The US is fully behind this, for many years Ukraine was second behind Israel as the largest recipient of US foreign aid. Russia will one day say "enough is enough".
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Post by journeyperson on Apr 26, 2016 21:07:24 GMT
Yes, fear of EU fragmentation is the crux of US desire to see us stay in, nothing to do with trade deals. They want us to stay in and help prop up a failing organisation to deter Putin. It's going to be a fairly close vote, whichever way it goes and like the Scots with the Scottish referendum, we should be able to demand some fundamental changes afterwards if the vote is to remain and maybe even offer trade and defence treaties as a non-member ally if we vote to leave. In light of Obamas visit last week and how he threatened the out camp. Do you think he would have won more people over with the fragmentation argument? I must say its one that Macwolfelee has stated on this thread previously. Politically it would have been a suicidal argument to make possibly. I think it would upset a lot of people within the EU if it was publicly suggested that Brexit could trigger a collapse of European security. In theory NATO should provide protection but USA and Canada would be very alarmed if the European members were disunited, whilst Putin might decide it's time to grab one or two Baltic states. It's a tangled web and we're at the centre of it! ETA - notice how we spell centre the French rather than the American way
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Post by Mr Stabby on Apr 26, 2016 21:15:13 GMT
I think it would upset a lot of people within the EU if it was publicly suggested that Brexit could trigger a collapse of European security. In theory NATO should provide protection but USA and Canada would be very alarmed if the European members were disunited, whilst Putin might decide it's time to grab one or two Baltic states. It's a tangled web and we're at the centre of it! You can bet the farm that the rest of the eu will be following news of the UK referendum with great interest. Greenland was once a member of the eu (or more accurately the EEC), and then it left. I don't see them begging and pleading to be allowed back in.
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