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Post by Higgs on Apr 14, 2016 20:36:27 GMT
They also pick on people that keep their boats in private marinas by forcing them to buy licences that they don't require to pay for services that they don't use. ETA: Didn't mean to quote you, Jenlyn. My mate doesnt pay for a license in his marina Delta [they have their own water in the marina] he buys a thirty day license and it suits him so I do understand your issue
Without saying what type of a marina (NAA or not), it is difficult to know if your friend is ever required to buy a licence in his particular marina. In Shardlow or Shobnall for instance, no licence is required.
In a few discussions on the other channel, Paul C stated he had come to an agreement with his marina and didn't have to have a licence. In the context of those discussions about NAA, he must be mooring in an NAA type marina for his answer to have made any sense. How can a marina take that kind of unilateral decision if CRT, as they do, imply that they have legitimate right to require boats to have a licence in NAA marinas. Well, CRT do not have any legal right. If the marinas so wished, they could all say to CRT that CRT do not have any legal right to a licence fee from boaters inside a marina.
Like so many argue, there is no legal basis for a minimum/maximum cruising distance being set, it's an arbitrary figure that is used, it just reflects the fact that CRT assume their authority is absolute. I think the owners of Paul C's marina and other marinas could make it quite clear that they, as the owners of marinas, are not employed to act on CRT's behalf as an enforcement agency and the law does not back them up in this enforcement practice.
Under the provisions of Section 43 Transport Act 1962, CRT can create a contract that effects the marina operations (NAA). There is no paragraph in that contract that passes on any law to the marinas. Only parliament could do that. No 'CRT law' in a marina, no licence enforcement legitimate.
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Post by kris on Apr 14, 2016 21:38:21 GMT
Some people seem to have got some funny ideas about what Nbta are about and the things that annoy boaters about Crt. Would someone like to point out where any one is saying it should be free to keep a boat on the canal. We won't worry about Higgs and his one man anti NAA campaign just at the minute. The waterways have changed. People live on boats, just trying to ride rough shod over them by changing the terms and conditions of the liscence is causing trouble. If you want to just hark back to the good old days, that's okay by me but maybe go and start a thread in the other place and see how far you get. Because to keep posting the same entrenched drivel, without listening to what other people are saying is really tedious and boring.
Regards kris
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Post by JohnV on Apr 14, 2016 22:29:39 GMT
The bidding system is a different matter which you may find we would be fairly close in our thoughts, but that is a different matter.
Back to the previous point. The infra structure of the canals i.e. water points, sanitary station points, suitable moorings etc. is designed for a fairly low level of occupied boats on the system in any one given area. It is surely common sense that if you wish to go and live in an area that you research if the facilities exist that you need. To just turn up and expect the system to accommodate you is just downright stupid. To do so in a crowded area and expect to be able to CC (sic) to avoid the cost of a mooring is doubly stupid
Come on John who says its designed for a low level of occupation ? some water taps and sanitation points never see a user from one day to the next.Who is turning up and expecting to be accommodated at additional cost ? where is this intolerable burden on the system ? There is no problem with cc you said earlier its a very small number that take the piss London........how many boats is it per water tap at the moment ?
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Post by Higgs on Apr 15, 2016 5:11:01 GMT
Some people seem to have got some funny ideas about what Nbta are about and the things that annoy boaters about Crt. Would someone like to point out where any one is saying it should be free to keep a boat on the canal. We won't worry about Higgs and his one man anti NAA campaign just at the minute. The waterways have changed. People live on boats, just trying to ride rough shod over them by changing the terms and conditions of the liscence is causing trouble. If you want to just hark back to the good old days, that's okay by me but maybe go and start a thread in the other place and see how far you get. Because to keep posting the same entrenched drivel, without listening to what other people are saying is really tedious and boring. Regards kris
I have not tried to derail anything in this thread and I am a live aboard boater. If you don't see any link between what I find an important issue and my take on CRT running rough shod over boaters, either don't say anything or try to offer some critical opposition to what I'm saying.., if you are actually listening yourself. Or, you may fall into the category of people you are describing in your last sentence.
So, just for the record - I'm a live aboard, living in a private space, paying for a licence. I'm amongst many thousands of boaters without any choice and getting it will make alot of difference to policy shaping in CRT. While I have no associations with NBTA, I'll maintain the right to be annoyed about CRT.
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Post by JohnV on Apr 15, 2016 5:57:15 GMT
Higgs.....For my part I am quite happy for you to argue your corner, I happen to think you are totally wrong headed about it (as you obviously know very well ;-) ) I do not consider you a scammer or anything like that and hope you never have got that impression from my posts or have felt insulted by me..........Of course non of this stops me thinking you are totally wrong and that your ideas would be a disaster for the waterways, and arguing vehemently against you !!! If we ever meet up I'll be happy to stand the first round.....Cheers John V
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 6:06:35 GMT
Come on John who says its designed for a low level of occupation ? some water taps and sanitation points never see a user from one day to the next.Who is turning up and expecting to be accommodated at additional cost ? where is this intolerable burden on the system ? There is no problem with cc you said earlier its a very small number that take the piss London........how many boats is it per water tap at the moment ? I think everyone who boats John, CRT included see London as an exception.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 6:09:00 GMT
Some people seem to have got some funny ideas about what Nbta are about and the things that annoy boaters about Crt. Would someone like to point out where any one is saying it should be free to keep a boat on the canal. We won't worry about Higgs and his one man anti NAA campaign just at the minute. The waterways have changed. People live on boats, just trying to ride rough shod over them by changing the terms and conditions of the liscence is causing trouble. If you want to just hark back to the good old days, that's okay by me but maybe go and start a thread in the other place and see how far you get. Because to keep posting the same entrenched drivel, without listening to what other people are saying is really tedious and boring. Regards kris
I have not tried to derail anything in this thread and I am a live aboard boater. If you don't see any link between what I find an important issue and my take on CRT running rough shod over boaters, either don't say anything or try to offer some critical opposition to what I'm saying.., if you are actually listening yourself. Or, you may fall into the category of people you are describing in your last sentence.
So, just for the record - I'm a live aboard, living in a private space, paying for a licence. I'm amongst many thousands of boaters without any choice and getting it will make alot of difference to policy shaping in CRT. While I have no associations with NBTA, I'll maintain the right to be annoyed about CRT.
Fair point Higgs and you have made it well in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 6:11:23 GMT
Higgs.....For my part I am quite happy for you to argue your corner, I happen to think you are totally wrong headed about it (as you obviously know very well ;-) ) I do not consider you a scammer or anything like that and hope you never have got that impression from my posts or have felt insulted by me..........Of course non of this stops me thinking you are totally wrong and that your ideas would be a disaster for the waterways, and arguing vehemently against you !!! If we ever meet up I'll be happy to stand the first round.....Cheers John V Nicely put John.
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Post by kris on Apr 15, 2016 6:54:21 GMT
Just because I posted directly after you doesn't mean all the content was aimed at you Higgs. I too am a livaboard boater who pays my way. I too withhold the right to berate Crt about how their policies effect real people's lives. What I get fed up with is very privliged people, moaning about dirty scrounging cc'ers not paying their way and getting something for nothing. This is usually based on hearsay and conjecture, but they broadcast it too the world like its gospel.
Regards kris
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 15, 2016 7:16:22 GMT
"What I get fed up with is very privliged people, moaning about dirty scrounging cc'ers not paying their way and getting something for nothing."
Will 'Prince' 'Arold and 'Prince' Billy be at the demo, fighting for just causes?
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Post by peterboat on Apr 15, 2016 7:31:54 GMT
My mate doesnt pay for a license in his marina Delta [they have their own water in the marina] he buys a thirty day license and it suits him so I do understand your issue
Without saying what type of a marina (NAA or not), it is difficult to know if your friend is ever required to buy a licence in his particular marina. In Shardlow or Shobnall for instance, no licence is required.
In a few discussions on the other channel, Paul C stated he had come to an agreement with his marina and didn't have to have a licence. In the context of those discussions about NAA, he must be mooring in an NAA type marina for his answer to have made any sense. How can a marina take that kind of unilateral decision if CRT, as they do, imply that they have legitimate right to require boats to have a licence in NAA marinas. Well, CRT do not have any legal right. If the marinas so wished, they could all say to CRT that CRT do not have any legal right to a licence fee from boaters inside a marina.
Like so many argue, there is no legal basis for a minimum/maximum cruising distance being set, it's an arbitrary figure that is used, it just reflects the fact that CRT assume their authority is absolute. I think the owners of Paul C's marina and other marinas could make it quite clear that they, as the owners of marinas, are not employed to act on CRT's behalf as an enforcement agency and the law does not back them up in this enforcement practice.
Under the provisions of Section 43 Transport Act 1962, CRT can create a contract that effects the marina operations (NAA). There is no paragraph in that contract that passes on any law to the marinas. Only parliament could do that. No 'CRT law' in a marina, no licence enforcement legitimate.
He is in Shardlow and whilst he travels a bit to play with his boat he saves by not having a license
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Post by peterboat on Apr 15, 2016 7:35:14 GMT
I am not saying that CCers dont pay there way what I and John have been saying is that non compliant CCers are milking the system. Also if an area is full there has to some control over the numbers otherwise other users dont get a fair use of the system
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 15, 2016 7:44:07 GMT
By the way, what are the aims of the demonstration and how will it be orchestrated? I do find singing and chanting at demonstrations rather silly and making a nonsense of the purpose of the demonstration. Will people there be actually demonstrating or just grilling sausages and having a sing-a-long? My idea of a demonstration is to drag a gibbet outside the offices of the organisation targeted and shout "Come down here y'bastards - we want to hang you!" And distribute information in written form to as many passers-by as possible to explain why.
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Post by peterboat on Apr 15, 2016 7:53:53 GMT
I was in London last year we went to Trafalger sq there was a demo on which was causing chaos nearly got me run over and none of the passing people were interested, why? they had come to see the sights not smelly, rough dressed, foul mouthed people had come to spout!! As most were from other nations they didnt understand anyway. It achieved not a jot the issue is now passed and nobody care or remembers what the demo was about
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 8:26:08 GMT
I was in London last year we went to Trafalger sq there was a demo on which was causing chaos nearly got me run over and none of the passing people were interested, why? they had come to see the sights not smelly, rough dressed, foul mouthed people had come to spout!! As most were from other nations they didnt understand anyway. It achieved not a jot the issue is now passed and nobody care or remembers what the demo was about I'm not sure if you post this crap for a wind up, or if you genuinely ain't quite right in the head. I think your trying very hard to be something you ain't (clever), but your succeeding in coming across as an idiot.
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