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Post by thebfg on Nov 17, 2021 17:04:24 GMT
Her first post was at 17.43 inside that legal definition of daylight hours. But I will add that in England and Wales the road vehicle and lighting regulations state that Night (the hours of darkness) is defined as the period between half an hour after sunset and half an hour before sunrise. I don't have a policy so can't check but I very much believe that in a policy it would have its own definition of night. Therefore a legal definition must be based purely on the time of sunset/sunrise. or a set amount + or -
The nearest general definition of day/night I could find was sunrise to sunset 1st point yes, from a legal standing yes, it has to be a specific moment. As I said driving use sunset + 30m, which is the same as flying. 2nd point generally speaking yes most people would use that to define it.
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 17, 2021 17:07:00 GMT
Her first post was at 17.43 inside that legal definition of daylight hours. But I will add that in England and Wales the road vehicle and lighting regulations state that Night (the hours of darkness) is defined as the period between half an hour after sunset and half an hour before sunrise. I don't have a policy so can't check but I very much believe that in a policy it would have its own definition of night. I wasn't commenting on the actual time that socks broke her rudder. I was commenting on the notion proposed by Telemachus that because he was able to safely land a glider at 30 minutes after sunset that that time could not be considered "night" I find that a bizarre idea that a legal definition can be decided by the particular conditions on any given day.
We all know that there are days when the conditions are such that you do not have sufficient light before sunset to complete normal tasks. On the other hand there are some clear days where it is light a long time before sunrise or for a very long time after sunset. Therefore a legal definition must be based purely on the time of sunset/sunrise. or a set amount + or -
The nearest general definition of day/night I could find was sunrise to sunset There has to be a formal definition of night for such things as insurance policies and laws where day or night is relevant, such as driving or flying. That definition has been reported by 2 posters on here but for some reason known only to you, you decline to accept it. It is 30 minutes after sunset and 30 minutes before sunrise. End of, even if you don’t like it. My point about being able to land the glider up to 30 mins after sunset is a legal one. On some days I’m sure it would be foolish, on others not so. But regardless, it is not night until 30 mins after sunset so the laws and insurance conditions that preclude flying a glider at night, kick in 30 mins after local sunset. It is not about whether there is enough light or visibility to carry out a task. It is simply a black and white change in the state of the day between daytime and nighttime. Surely this is not a difficult concept to grasp?
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Post by Jim on Nov 17, 2021 17:08:46 GMT
Socks made it abuntantly clear that she was seeking help from a professional with insurance cover, so as well meaning as anyones offer was, it would likely have been refused. Though I am far from certain she had any offers of physical help from members of either of the forums anyway. Someone else who hasn't spotted this at the bottom of all my posts : - A.K.DUNKLEY - Commercial Vessel Operators & Marine Engineers Are you one of the extraordinarily large proportion of contributing Thunderboat members who really should train their guide dogs to do their posting for them, . . or was simply that you didn't notice it ? Engineers? Operators? How many Uncle Dunks are there? I know there have been 2 posting recently. Perhaps you are counting the dog?
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Post by Trina on Nov 17, 2021 17:21:27 GMT
I remember another forum that decided to only keep those members who were part of the clique JohnVRog It's not being part of a clique Rog,Jo made some posts both here & on the other side about Thunderboat-which were both rude & extremely unfriendly.
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Post by Trina on Nov 17, 2021 17:24:17 GMT
I only stay because it’s fascinating watching a bunch of barely functional people interacting with each other in an uncontrolled way, and in the process slowly and inexorably destroying themselves, I wonder if there is the equivalent of a “Site of Special Scientific Interest” for an internet site? it would make a great subject for a psychology PhD dissertation. It’s a great lesson in why we need leaders who aren’t that concerned what other people think of them, such as Boris Johnson. All hail Bojo! What a very strange post,especially from someone who'd argue with his own reflection...just for the hell of it !😏
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Post by kris on Nov 17, 2021 17:39:26 GMT
br] Keep your posting factual and truthful, or keep out of it. There's more than enough distracting drivel in this thread. yes lots of it posted by yourself.
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Post by kris on Nov 17, 2021 17:47:26 GMT
source="/post/319594/thread" timestamp="1637148786" A.K.DUNKLEY - Ex Commercial Vessel Operators & Marine Engineers Currently a professional internet troll and fuck wit.
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Post by JohnV on Nov 17, 2021 17:58:04 GMT
I wasn't commenting on the actual time that socks broke her rudder. I was commenting on the notion proposed by Telemachus that because he was able to safely land a glider at 30 minutes after sunset that that time could not be considered "night" I find that a bizarre idea that a legal definition can be decided by the particular conditions on any given day.
We all know that there are days when the conditions are such that you do not have sufficient light before sunset to complete normal tasks. On the other hand there are some clear days where it is light a long time before sunrise or for a very long time after sunset. Therefore a legal definition must be based purely on the time of sunset/sunrise. or a set amount + or -
The nearest general definition of day/night I could find was sunrise to sunset There has to be a formal definition of night for such things as insurance policies and laws where day or night is relevant, such as driving or flying. That definition has been reported by 2 posters on here but for some reason known only to you, you decline to accept it. It is 30 minutes after sunset and 30 minutes before sunrise. End of, even if you don’t like it. My point about being able to land the glider up to 30 mins after sunset is a legal one. On some days I’m sure it would be foolish, on others not so. But regardless, it is not night until 30 mins after sunset so the laws and insurance conditions that preclude flying a glider at night, kick in 30 mins after local sunset. It is not about whether there is enough light or visibility to carry out a task. It is simply a black and white change in the state of the day between daytime and nighttime. Surely this is not a difficult concept to grasp? please state where I declined to accept that timing (which incidentally neither of us know if that is the definition accepted by an insurance company)
You did not state that time in your post ... I suggest you go back and check. You said that you landed at 25 minutes after sunset, you did not mention if that was before a set day/night timing only implied that the person you were arguing with must have cataracts if they couldn't, that is a very long way from claiming the legal time is 30 min past
You complain about people who argue for the sake of arguing, something you are frequently guilty of.
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 17, 2021 18:01:37 GMT
There has to be a formal definition of night for such things as insurance policies and laws where day or night is relevant, such as driving or flying. That definition has been reported by 2 posters on here but for some reason known only to you, you decline to accept it. It is 30 minutes after sunset and 30 minutes before sunrise. End of, even if you don’t like it. My point about being able to land the glider up to 30 mins after sunset is a legal one. On some days I’m sure it would be foolish, on others not so. But regardless, it is not night until 30 mins after sunset so the laws and insurance conditions that preclude flying a glider at night, kick in 30 mins after local sunset. It is not about whether there is enough light or visibility to carry out a task. It is simply a black and white change in the state of the day between daytime and nighttime. Surely this is not a difficult concept to grasp? please state where I declined to accept that timing (which incidentally neither of us know if that is the definition accepted by an insurance company)
You did not state that time in your post ... I suggest you go back and check. You said that you landed at 25 minutes after sunset, you did not mention if that was before a set day/night timing only implied that the person you were arguing with must have cataracts if they couldn't, that is a very long way from claiming the legal time is 30 min past
You complain about people who argue for the sake of arguing, something you are frequently guilty of.
I had mentioned the 30mins thing in a previous post. I don’t think it is reasonable to expect everyone to have a précis of all their relevant previous points in each new post in a thread. The point was that I can legally land 25 mins after sunset because official night doesn’t start until 30 mins after sunset.
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Post by JohnV on Nov 17, 2021 18:07:40 GMT
Yes, it was dark. Not pitch dark as midnight but dark. .... and darker still with no lights in the area and in the bottom of a lock. Maybe you need your cataracts sorting? it’s broad daylight at 5 minutes past sunset. It’s dark in a tunnel, does that mean insurance companies don’t allow single handed tunnel passage? I think you need to pause and consider the difference between dark and night. Not suffering from cataracts, I manage to land my glider without instrument or external lights, on an unlit airfield, 25 minutes after sunset. Does that make me some kind of superhuman hero? Probably not. just so you don't lose sight of your post that triggered my response
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 17, 2021 18:09:18 GMT
So in summary, the last 10 or so pages relate to:
Suggestion that a boat insurance policy might not cover single handing at night. We don’t know the contents of Jo’s policy, but neither of the policies I’ve had for our boat had/have such a clause.
The fact that the event did not happen at night and so the content of Jo’s insurance policy on the matter is irrelevant.
That’s it, nothing more to see. Well except that more people left the forum because they dislike the stupid bickering. But who cares?
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 17, 2021 18:10:34 GMT
www.suntoday.org/sunrise-sunset/2021/november/11.html It was dark at 4.30 It really doesn't matter if it is a fatuous argument regarding possible insurance costs, the fact is it wasn't wise to carry on through the locks on a winters afternoon in murky weather and in the dark. She admits her catalogue of errors that exacerbated the problem, and luckily for her it didn't cause an injury. No, you don’t understand the concept of twilight. Sunset is not nightfall. Have you ever been outside at 5 mins past sunset? Did it look like night? Was it dark? No. There are various definitions of official night but the most common one I’ve come across is sunset + 30 mins for the U.K. It’s certainly the definition used in aviation. Just so interested people don’t lose sight of one of my previous points.
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Post by kris on Nov 17, 2021 18:19:10 GMT
source="/post/319594/thread" timestamp="1637148786" A.K.DUNKLEY - Ex Commercial Vessel Operators & Marine Engineers Currently a professional internet troll and fuck wit. Recorded and added to the rest. I’m still waiting for the legal papers to be served, from the last time you threatened legal action against me. Would you have any idea when I can expect them? Maybe in three weeks time?
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Post by JohnV on Nov 17, 2021 18:21:53 GMT
So in summary, the last 10 or so pages relate to: Suggestion that a boat insurance policy might not cover single handing at night. We don’t know the contents of Jo’s policy, but neither of the policies I’ve had for our boat had/have such a clause.The fact that the event did not happen at night and so the content of Jo’s insurance policy on the matter is irrelevant. That’s it, nothing more to see. Well except that more people left the forum because they dislike the stupid bickering. But who cares? That is interesting ..... did you actually check? or is that from memory?
I believe you said you are with Craftinsure, Peterboat has said he is with them and was surprised to find that clause (no single handing at night) in his policy.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2021 18:33:40 GMT
So in summary, the last 10 or so pages relate to: Suggestion that a boat insurance policy might not cover single handing at night. We don’t know the contents of Jo’s policy, but neither of the policies I’ve had for our boat had/have such a clause.The fact that the event did not happen at night and so the content of Jo’s insurance policy on the matter is irrelevant. That’s it, nothing more to see. Well except that more people left the forum because they dislike the stupid bickering. But who cares? That is interesting ..... did you actually check? or is that from memory?
I believe you said you are with Craftinsure, Peterboat has said he is with them and was surprised to find that clause (no single handing at night) in his policy.
Its not in my GJW policy but appears in yours so maybe its in Peters but not in anyone elses All speculation until someone sees the relevent policy docs .
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