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Post by Telemachus on Aug 9, 2022 8:34:24 GMT
As I said, we have politicians who choose to protect the status quo ... I wonder who that benefits Rog One reason for protecting the status quo to some extent, is that making radical changes to the structure of society can have detrimental unintended consequences. The structure of society is a very complex thing and tampering with it abruptly is rash. Not too many revolutions have been successful in the way you are referring to. The bottom line is that if you have some great practical ideas on how to fix things, why not tell us and the rest of the country about it, and stand for election? Otherwise I’m afraid it is just good intentions without any substance.
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 9, 2022 8:40:00 GMT
Saying that people living in cardboard boxes is an easy and cheap thing to fix demonstrates phenomenal naivety. You should look into why that happens. Maybe you should look into the homeless policy in Scotland. North of the border you have much better policies to deal with it compared to England. They where copied from Scandinavian ideas. If you look at the statistics (Google version anyway) there is a much higher % of people sleeping rough in Scotland than England - bearing in mind the population of England is around 10 times that of Scotland. Of course “homelessness” is not a well defined concept, there are for example big differences between sleeping rough and sofa surfing and having a room in a hostel for the night.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2022 9:25:42 GMT
I've said before that we are the fortunate ones.
Yes we've all worked, but we started out from a position of having largely loving families, nurturing us and directing our efforts.
Some don't get that opportunity through no fault of their own.
Surely we should be judging our society by the strength of the weakest and not "piss on the fire Jack, my toast's done"
Rog
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 9, 2022 9:34:52 GMT
I've said before that we are the fortunate ones. Yes we've all worked, but we started out from a position of having largely loving families, nurturing us and directing our efforts. Some don't get that opportunity through no fault of their own. Surely we should be judging our society by the strength of the weakest and not "piss on the fire Jack, my toast's done" Rog I think you are seeing the actual issues, which is not so much about money but more about the human nature of society and it’s behavioural expectations. As you say one can get off to a good or bad start according to one’s parents. But requiring parents to be good parents is not really something any government can get too directly involved with.
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Post by kris on Aug 9, 2022 9:41:50 GMT
Maybe you should look into the homeless policy in Scotland. North of the border you have much better policies to deal with it compared to England. They where copied from Scandinavian ideas. If you look at the statistics (Google version anyway) there is a much higher % of people sleeping rough in Scotland than England - bearing in mind the population of England is around 10 times that of Scotland. Of course “homelessness” is not a well defined concept, there are for example big differences between sleeping rough and sofa surfing and having a room in a hostel for the night. Have you ever been homeless?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2022 9:42:54 GMT
The question is perhaps then ... what kind of society are we, when we are happy for our politicians to ignore the weakest amongst us ?
Rog
ETA I used to see the Labour party as the champions of the working classes, encouraging the 'evil' of capitalism to provide equality and fairness.
Sadly that Labour party has gone.
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Post by ianali on Aug 9, 2022 9:46:55 GMT
The question is perhaps then ... what kind of society are we, when we are happy for our politicians to ignore the weakest amongst us ? Rog That’s easy to answer. We are a failed society.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2022 9:51:08 GMT
I blame Gordon Brown.
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 9, 2022 10:37:58 GMT
The question is perhaps then ... what kind of society are we, when we are happy for our politicians to ignore the weakest amongst us ? Rog ETA I used to see the Labour party as the champions of the working classes, encouraging the 'evil' of capitalism to provide equality and fairness. Sadly that Labour party has gone. When the labour party was in power, was homelessness less of an issue? Was poverty less of an issue? I don't think so, although of course with the internet these days we are much more aware of what is going on out of our own eyesight, so it might SEEM worse.
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 9, 2022 10:42:16 GMT
The question is perhaps then ... what kind of society are we, when we are happy for our politicians to ignore the weakest amongst us ? The problem is that some people cannot easily be helped. As I said, it is not all about money. One of the problems as I see it is that it has increasingly become seen as a "right" to have children regardless of any proposed means to support them. Have a baby - fine. Expect someone else to pay for it - fine. But only up to a point, and we are close to breaching that point. No society can function when there is too much of that going on. People have to take responibility for their own actions and life, up to a point at least. Obviously there are some who are quite unable to do so, and that is fair enough.
When questioning any behaviour, it is always good to contemplate what would happen if everyone followed the same proposed behavioural pattern.
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 9, 2022 10:49:06 GMT
If you look at the statistics (Google version anyway) there is a much higher % of people sleeping rough in Scotland than England - bearing in mind the population of England is around 10 times that of Scotland. Of course “homelessness” is not a well defined concept, there are for example big differences between sleeping rough and sofa surfing and having a room in a hostel for the night. Have you ever been homeless? As I said, it depends on what you mean by homeless. Living in someone else's grotty caravan with no power or running water - yes. Sofa surfing - yes. But in both cases with the fallback that if everything went to ratshit I could always go home to Mummy, so you probably don't think that counts. Oh and there was the time I took the motorbike to Bavaria to look at a motor glider we were thinking of buying, back in 1984 before mobile phones. Stupidly left my wallet on the rear seat of the bike at the petrol station so when I got to the camp site, I had absolutely no money except a few coins. Went back to look for wallet but no joy. Went to police station, they were pretty useless but told me that if I camped illegally in a certain place they wouldn't hassle me, so I did. Next morning only stream water for breakfast. Went to bank in local town, had to wait until late afternoon before finally Lloyds got their act together and wired some money about 5 mins before bank closing time. Very hungry. Phew. Just a taster of what it is like to be out and about with no money and just a tent.
But anyway, why the question? Do you think only people who have actually been homeless have any credibility in this conversation. And maybe I haven't been properly homeless because I made the right choices in life. Does that make me a bad person?
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Post by naughtyfox on Aug 9, 2022 11:42:50 GMT
"There is no magic money tree" ... but there is a Magic Money Indian called Rishi Sunak's wife who could do with a good shaking to get all the taxes she's not been paying to fall out.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2022 11:58:31 GMT
It's not about personal experience, it's about simply appreciating that we as a society ought to be helping those in need as a priority.
There's nothing wrong with encouraging wealth creation provided we look after those who need a hand up as well.
Rog
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2022 11:59:59 GMT
Have you ever been homeless? As I said, it depends on what you mean by homeless. Living in someone else's grotty caravan with no power or running water - yes. Sofa surfing - yes. But in both cases with the fallback that if everything went to ratshit I could always go home to Mummy, so you probably don't think that counts. Oh and there was the time I took the motorbike to Bavaria to look at a motor glider we were thinking of buying, back in 1984 before mobile phones. Stupidly left my wallet on the rear seat of the bike at the petrol station so when I got to the camp site, I had absolutely no money except a few coins. Went back to look for wallet but no joy. Went to police station, they were pretty useless but told me that if I camped illegally in a certain place they wouldn't hassle me, so I did. Next morning only stream water for breakfast. Went to bank in local town, had to wait until late afternoon before finally Lloyds got their act together and wired some money about 5 mins before bank closing time. Very hungry. Phew. Just a taster of what it is like to be out and about with no money and just a tent.
But anyway, why the question? Do you think only people who have actually been homeless have any credibility in this conversation. And maybe I haven't been properly homeless because I made the right choices in life. Does that make me a bad person?
No, that isn't the issue.
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Post by JohnV on Aug 9, 2022 12:45:27 GMT
bollox ...... read to the end before posting doh!!!
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