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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2022 21:33:55 GMT
Just so that everyone's absolutely clear about this. You don't care about others' safety, or that of their families or their boats' safety, . . and you don't see that C&RT are in any way responsible for the incident in the photo, . . despite the boat crew following C&RT's instructions and operational timing schedules to the letter. Have I got that right ? No, you haven't got it right. You are given three pieces of navigation advice at Tarleton and it's made absolutely clear that it's essential to follow them. 1) On the approach to the Asland Lamp, aim for the central building, the one with the enormous ball on the roof. 2) Go around the outside of the Asland Lamp, not the inside. 3) Don't cut the corner at the approach to Savick Brook, stay mid-channel and make a 90 degree turn and approach it dead straight. The boater in your photo has made a mistake. He didn't follow instruction 3. We all make mistakes and that was his. He would have been floated off on the next tide so it's not the end of the world. To be fair, a pair of channel markers would be neither expensive or difficult to sort out. Even just some posts set in the ground would be a help.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Aug 7, 2022 4:05:53 GMT
No, you haven't got it right. You are given three pieces of navigation advice at Tarleton and it's made absolutely clear that it's essential to follow them. 1) On the approach to the Asland Lamp, aim for the central building, the one with the enormous ball on the roof. 2) Go around the outside of the Asland Lamp, not the inside. 3) Don't cut the corner at the approach to Savick Brook, stay mid-channel and make a 90 degree turn and approach it dead straight. The boater in your photo has made a mistake. He didn't follow instruction 3. We all make mistakes and that was his. He would have been floated off on the next tide so it's not the end of the world. To be fair, a pair of channel markers would be neither expensive or difficult to sort out. Even just some posts set in the ground would be a help. Channel markers in the shape of posts or withies certainly aren't costly or difficult to put in place, but they're easily knocked over or displaced by big chunks of floating debris - like big branches or even whole trees - of the sort that's often found sloshing up and down with every tide in tidal rivers like the Ribble. Leading marks ashore are a better and longer lasting alternative, . . and of course there are also the very best, and the most numerous and well sited markers of all - the positioning and the gradients of the sand/silt/mud that bares out as the tide falls. It's for that reason that northbound craft entering the Savick Brook outfall from the Ribble should be doing so as soon as they possibly can on the first of the Flood, . . and NOT on the last of it, . . or worse still slack HW or the first of the Ebb.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Aug 7, 2022 5:09:45 GMT
Just so that everyone's absolutely clear about this. You don't care about others' safety, or that of their families or their boats' safety, . . and you don't see that C&RT are in any way responsible for the incident in the photo, . . despite the boat crew following C&RT's instructions and operational timing schedules to the letter. Have I got that right ? No, you haven't got it right. You are given three pieces of navigation advice at Tarleton and it's made absolutely clear that it's essential to follow them. 1) On the approach to the Asland Lamp, aim for the central building, the one with the enormous ball on the roof. 2) Go around the outside of the Asland Lamp, not the inside. 3) Don't cut the corner at the approach to Savick Brook, stay mid-channel and make a 90 degree turn and approach it dead straight.
The boater in your photo has made a mistake. He didn't follow instruction 3. We all make mistakes and that was his. He would have been floated off on the next tide so it's not the end of the world. The only mistake the skipper of the stranded boat in the photo made was following the C&RT's ill-considered and potentially quite dangerous rubbish instructions on timing/scheduling his arrival at the Savick Brook outfall/entrance to be at, around, or as close as possible to local HW. With the grassy banks on either side of the Savick Brook outfall/entrance covered by at least 2' of muddy murky water there are no means by which it's possible to see or judge "the corner" that these pleasure craft are told not to "cut" in your "instruction 3". Like the rest of the C&RT crap that's published as guidance and instructions on passage making through a now canalised former drainage ditch -- "instruction 3" is complete and utter nonsense from a so-called navigation authority that's endangering pleasure craft, and the crews aboard them, through its ignorance and incompetence. If there's a reply to this, post it on the Winter CC in the NW thread.
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Post by JohnV on Aug 7, 2022 5:35:09 GMT
the entrance to Benfleet creek is like that on spring tides. Once the saltings are covered you can't see a bloody thing ..... only options are to wait for it to drop a bit so you can see the banks (probably not practical for a narrow boat at that entrance) or at Benfleet chance your arm and try and remember which boats are moored in which part of the twisty channel
Sitting on the putty, pretending you are just there to scrub the bottom, is a way of life on the Essex Coast
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 5:58:38 GMT
I reckon @loddon has a bit of experience here.
Knowledge is one thing but experience is a little more useful in a lot of ways.
The difference being that knowledge is theory which in practice can end up being the wrong thing to do at the time. You might "know it all" but in practice be incompetent and inflexibility will lead to negative outcomes.
Experience is something which actually happens in real life.
Interesting that the term for understanding of certain areas of waterways is called "Local knowledge". I'm pretty sure that this also requires practical real world experience.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Aug 7, 2022 6:04:48 GMT
the entrance to Benfleet creek is like that on spring tides. Once the saltings are covered you can't see a bloody thing ..... only options are to wait for it to drop a bit so you can see the banks (probably not practical for a narrow boat at that entrance) or at Benfleet chance your arm and try and remember which boats are moored in which part of the twisty channel
Sitting on the putty, pretending you are just there to scrub the bottom, is a way of life on the Essex Coast Yes, . . OK on fairly uniformly sloping softish saltings and mud, . . but very 'iffy' where there are known steep-to edges of firm ground that's normally above MHW. If that boat had come to rest a few feet sooner and toppled off that grass bank edge as the Ebb ran away it would have been in big trouble.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 7:32:01 GMT
I reckon @loddon has a bit of experience here. Never been caught on a falling tide π€ I did take Parglena into many places that it shouldn't have gone π€ Presently looking at a trip to Wisbech and trying to work out the best time to leave DiaD so as not to end up having to wind at Wisbech with the tide at maximum ebb.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 8:03:28 GMT
Just an update on the thread purpose ... an apology and clarification has now been published.
Atherstone locks WILL NOT close on 12 August ... restricted opening hours will commence that day.
Rog
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Post by kris on Aug 7, 2022 8:29:01 GMT
Just an update on the thread purpose ... an apology and clarification has now been published. Atherstone locks WILL NOT close on 12 August ... restricted opening hours will commence that day. Rog I didnβt realise that these locks are tidal.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 8:40:28 GMT
Just an update on the thread purpose ... an apology and clarification has now been published. Atherstone locks WILL NOT close on 12 August ... restricted opening hours will commence that day. Rog I didnβt realise that these locks are tidal. This is the Atherstone locks thread kris ... do try and keep up. They were open ... then closed ... then open again ... then closed again ... now they're open but restricted but not until 12 August. What could be simpler π Rog
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Post by kris on Aug 7, 2022 9:09:22 GMT
I didnβt realise that these locks are tidal. This is the Atherstone locks thread kris ... do try and keep up. They were open ... then closed ... then open again ... then closed again ... now they're open but restricted but not until 12 August. What could be simpler π Rog It was a joke.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 9:12:07 GMT
This is the Atherstone locks thread kris ... do try and keep up. They were open ... then closed ... then open again ... then closed again ... now they're open but restricted but not until 12 August. What could be simpler π Rog It was a joke. Yes ... so was this π Rog
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 12:18:51 GMT
The responsibility for that grounding lies firmly with the navigation/harbour authority of that piece of tidal water for not marking the entrance to the channel and the idiot boater for cutting the corner. No one else. The navigation/harbour authority responsible for marking the Savick Brook outfall/entrance is C&RT, . . and not being able to see grassy banks submerged under at least 2' of muddy, murky water does NOT make the stranded boat skipper an idiot. Saying that it does says a lot about you, though ! What you are like says a lot about the kind of person you are.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 13:30:47 GMT
Any boater that cuts any corner is an idiot, even on a canal.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Aug 7, 2022 13:45:05 GMT
Any boater that cuts any corner is an idiot, even on a canal. How can anyone avoid cutting 'corners' that they can't see, . . because the 'corner', and the immediate surrounding land is submerged under 2' or more of muddy water that's hiding everything from view, . . unless you happen to be a fish with exceptional eyesight and extensive local knowledge ?
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