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Post by Telemachus on Aug 18, 2023 7:41:24 GMT
Where does that info come from? I very much doubt it. The thing is Andy there is such thing as legal precedent, the fact that they have supplied them for so long would go along way in a properly organized legal challenge. A legal challenge has to have a basis in law. There is no law requiring CRT to provide rubbish (or any other type of) facilities. I am all in favour of encouraging CRT to provide such facilities at reasonable intervals, but not point in getting all “wishful legal” about it. Could be worse, on the River Nene (EA Waters) there are basically no rubbish facilities in what is a 3 or 4 day journey to traverse. Lots of signs saying “take your rubbish home” which is not helpful if you live aboard or are out for a while. The Gt Ouse is marginally better, but still several days between rubbish facilities.
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Post by kris on Aug 18, 2023 7:42:29 GMT
So just bury your heads in the sand and let them get on with it then.
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Post by dogless on Aug 18, 2023 7:44:58 GMT
My understanding was that the moorers did seek 'professional' help, but when all arguments fell on deaf ears they were advised there was no other avenues open to them.
Have to say I'm unaware of any legislation requiring C&RT to provide such services, and I'm sure they'd argue the number of refuse sites hasn't been reduced, just rearranged.
My greatest concern is that people will just dump their rubbish canalside.
Rog
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Post by on Aug 18, 2023 7:46:47 GMT
CRT should have volunteer bin men.
CRT outfit and a nice wheelie bin. Walk up and down your length of canal helping people by providing a bin. For boaters and public to use.
Gets you out in the open air and provides a service. Towpaths are in a lot of cases well surfaced these days so no problems there.
Why should the CRT pay vast amounts of money to Biffa or Veolia when there are volunteers queueueing up for the job of keeping the place tidy?
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Post by dogless on Aug 18, 2023 7:48:48 GMT
From all I've read on the subject (which isn't a lot) it sounds like under C&RT's guiding hand the system is going back to the conditions of the sixties.
The moorers are more fearful that the canal will be totally abandoned than about the refuse situation.
Rog
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Post by kris on Aug 18, 2023 7:50:42 GMT
People will just dump there rubbish and will tip there elsans where ever, this is inevitable. It will lead to lots of anti boater sentiment, which is what crt are aiming for. They’ve seen how effective it is in London when local residents don’t like boaters, so the local authorities become involved. But this isn’t a done deal at the moment, If boaters just throw up there arms and say nothing we can do then it becomes a done deal.
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Post by on Aug 18, 2023 7:51:41 GMT
Ashby is certainly an interesting one if the CRT do become impecunious.
The idea of declassifying canals has come from the horse's mouth. There must be a list of 'most likely' candidates.
I've always thought the K&A might get into trouble but the Ashby is certainly interesting.
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Post by on Aug 18, 2023 7:56:05 GMT
People will just dump there rubbish and will tip there elsans where ever, this is inevitable. It will lead to lots of anti boater sentiment, which is what crt are aiming for. They’ve seen how effective it is in London when local residents don’t like boaters, so the local authorities become involved. But this isn’t a done deal at the moment, If boaters just throw up there arms and say nothing we can do then it becomes a done deal. An interesting FOI request might be to ask for the reasons why bin stores are being closed or relocated. Not sure how one would word it but you'd have to ask for the minutes of a meeting or a report about the situation with the bins. Is it illegal fly tipping? Shit in the bins? Increasing fees from contractors? There must be a reason other than the slightly conspiratorial idea that it is to give boaters a bad name. Concentrate on the bins. Why and how many? Have the CRT considered the side effects of closure of bin stores? There must be a report on this and it is presumably public information.
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Post by kris on Aug 18, 2023 7:58:16 GMT
People will just dump there rubbish and will tip there elsans where ever, this is inevitable. It will lead to lots of anti boater sentiment, which is what crt are aiming for. They’ve seen how effective it is in London when local residents don’t like boaters, so the local authorities become involved. But this isn’t a done deal at the moment, If boaters just throw up there arms and say nothing we can do then it becomes a done deal. An interesting FOI request might be to ask for the reasons why bin stores are being closed or relocated. Not sure how one would word it but you'd have to ask for the minutes of a meeting or a report about the situation with the bins. Is it illegal fly tipping? Shit in the bins? Increasing fees from contractors? There must be a reason other than the slightly conspiratorial idea that it is to give boaters a bad name. Im getting the wording of another foi request at the min. After they refused to answer my last one. But don’t let that stop other people putting in foi requests of their own.
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Post by dogless on Aug 18, 2023 8:06:31 GMT
There are permanent moorers at Lime Kilns pub, so the bin move is a win for them.
I'm curious what the purpose of the move was ?
Apparently (I'm told) the bin 'contract' costs over £30,000 a year. They haven't saved money as they've only moved it.
There's a new steel compound at the pub car park containing the skips, and new signage in the car park (nothing tow path or waterpoint side).
And what's the incentive for the pub to have boater waste site in the car park ?
Do C&RT own the pub so the occupants have no choice ?
As I said earlier, they've moved the facility at whatever cost, not removed it.
What's the purpose or benefit ... doesn't make sense.
Rog
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 18, 2023 8:15:18 GMT
So just bury your heads in the sand and let them get on with it then. My point was that there is no point in pursuing a costly course of action that has zero possibility of success.
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Post by kris on Aug 18, 2023 8:17:31 GMT
What's the purpose or benefit ... doesn't make sense. Rog Crt don’t make sense.
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Post by on Aug 18, 2023 8:19:53 GMT
There are permanent moorers at Lime Kilns pub, so the bin move is a win for them. I'm curious what the purpose of the move was ? Apparently (I'm told) the bin 'contract' costs over £30,000 a year. They haven't saved money as they've only moved it. There's a new steel compound at the pub car park containing the skips, and new signage in the car park (nothing tow path or waterpoint side). And what's the incentive for the pub to have boater waste site in the car park ? Do C&RT own the pub so the occupants have no choice ? As I said earlier, they've moved the facility at whatever cost, not removed it. What's the purpose or benefit ... doesn't make sense. Rog I wonder if there is an intention to at some point secure the bin store with for example an ASSA key and then sell keys to boaters. CRT do have the right to charge for services. Whether people would close up after use is questionable. I imagine the reason for linking it to the pub is increased security and less likelihood of fly tipping. I'm sure that the CRT have significant problems with commercial waste coming from boats being fitted out or refitted. Its bound to happen. No way does a cruising licence cover you for commercial waste disposal.
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Post by kris on Aug 18, 2023 8:24:34 GMT
If crt are worried about costs, then finding away of charging the number of van dwellers using the facilities would be a start. But it would mean some other locks than the crt key. I would suggest magnetic cards that are replaced yearly. The argument that I have heard for removing facilities is vandalism and the costs of repair. This would solve that problem as well.
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Post by Andyberg on Aug 18, 2023 8:25:22 GMT
I would think the Burscough move was due to awkward rubbish removal access, the service block is about 75yard from a public car park so emptying it would have been a pain. The skip at Millennium Green has easy access although it looks like CRT have to seriously look at the regularity of skip emptying, every time Ive looked there its been an absolute disgrace with obvious fly tipping / boat rip out waste taking up half of the compound.
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