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Post by peterboat on Dec 30, 2017 17:23:31 GMT
Usual total bollacks!! selective facts to give them the answer they want! Drilling for oil, refining oil, distributing oil, all creates huge amounts of pollution if you add that into the mix you would realise just how bad diesel/petrol is. It doesnt matter what the press says or does you just know like politicians they are lying because its what they do so what about the extraction of the rare earth metals for the batteries? Remember they will get thrown after five years or so or when they don't produce the range required. Also don't forget that electric cars still have petro chemicals involved in their production. The plastics involved plus the energy it takes to produce them. I know your an advocate of electric vechiles Peter, but it really isn't as clear cut as you would like us to beleive. Its very easy Kris electric car batteries are made of hundreds of smaller cells, the car can tell you from its OBD which cells are going down and they can be replaced simple stuff really also the batteries can be recycled at the end. When that diesel is burnt its just pollution which KILLS people simple really. Anyway it really doesnt matter, as in a couple of years buying petrol or diesel will be expensive as the cars will be disappearing off the roads, the demand will fall and the cycle just keeps on turning until the fuel and the need for it will be gone. This is going to happen, all the stamping of feet and saying it wont, will not stop it happening, and it will be quicker than you think. When the sodium batteries come on stream made from salt I suppose the argument will be that salt is being taken from the sea etc etc and we are changing the oceans its all a joke really, as the damage is done and we are just waiting for the consequences
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Post by kris on Dec 30, 2017 17:38:39 GMT
so what about the extraction of the rare earth metals for the batteries? Remember they will get thrown after five years or so or when they don't produce the range required. Also don't forget that electric cars still have petro chemicals involved in their production. The plastics involved plus the energy it takes to produce them. I know your an advocate of electric vechiles Peter, but it really isn't as clear cut as you would like us to beleive. Its very easy Kris electric car batteries are made of hundreds of smaller cells, the car can tell you from its OBD which cells are going down and they can be replaced simple stuff really also the batteries can be recycled at the end. When that diesel is burnt its just pollution which KILLS people simple really. Anyway it really doesnt matter, as in a couple of years buying petrol or diesel will be expensive as the cars will be disappearing off the roads, the demand will fall and the cycle just keeps on turning until the fuel and the need for it will be gone. This is going to happen, all the stamping of feet and saying it wont, will not stop it happening, and it will be quicker than you think. When the sodium batteries come on stream made from salt I suppose the argument will be that salt is being taken from the sea etc etc and we are changing the oceans its all a joke really, as the damage is done and we are just waiting for the consequences as I've said to you before Peter when the day comes I can't buy diesel(although I don't think that will happen in my lifetime) I will make a pyrolosis plant and make my own fuel. I reckon theres already enough plastic In circulation to keep me in diesel for my lifetimeπ I agree with you that the damage is already done and we are going to have to deal with the consequences. No body is talking about reduction of consumption, they are just looking for ways to keep the consumption growing. A completely impossible situation, the planet cannot sustain it. Which is why they are looking to space for new sources of things to consume. I hope sodium batteries come along soon, I've been waiting over 20 years for the revolution In battery technology. Oh I know we've had lithium come along in that time, but I mean something the average person can afford to use. I'm still running on 18th century lead acid technology. Oh yes one more question, where will all the extra electricity come from to charge all of these electric cars?
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Post by bodger on Dec 31, 2017 9:20:02 GMT
What about the hydrogen fuel cell? You can fill up at a traditional filling station that's been equipped to supply liquid hydrogen. You get similar ranges to petrol/diesel vehicles but all that comes out of the tailpipe is water. No heavy batteries to lug about, just the fuel cell and the car is electrically powered. I seem to recall James May doing a piece on Top Gear around 2005/6 where in a county in California Shell had supplied the hydrogen delivery infrastructure and Honda supplied a fuel cell version of the Civic. I don't know what goes into making a fuel cell, but I'm guessing it might be less throwaway than a battery bank. I realise liquid hydrogen has to be stored at high pressure, I'm sure we have the technology to make it as safe to carry on vehicles as petrol or lpg. This would enable transport with little pollution without cables running everywhere and without collapsing the national grid. it doesn't necessarily need to be 'supplied'. ..... in countries where there is almost continuous sunshine, hydrogen can be generated on site (provided there is a supply of water), without the input of any other energy apart from solar. This could apply to many states in the USA and all of the Gulf countries (where big gas guzzlers are the norm - 4litre straight six petrol engines are common), where remote fuel stations are not on the power grid. And of course fuel stations that are on the grid could also produce hydrogen independently, anywhere in the world.
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Post by peterboat on Dec 31, 2017 10:20:40 GMT
In Sheffield we have one of the four sites in the UK that supply Hydrogen to cars, I think it has a customer a year!!!! Nobody could point me to where it was I could have googled it but couldnt be arsed which pretty much sums up why Hydrogen cars wont happen in the UK, that and the huge cost which dwarfs electric cars. Cleverer people than us are developing electric vehicles and they are leaping forward diesel then petrol will be gone in the near future what is the problem? dont you all want cleaner air to breath? Arnt you effected by NOX? I dont want Millie poisoned by it which is why I see electric transport as a good thing and IC engines as now bad its just progress and it might prolong humans existence on earth
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Post by kris on Dec 31, 2017 10:38:16 GMT
Prolonging human existence on earth might not be a good thing in the long run. I don't think diesel fuel will dissapear quite as fast as you seem to think Peter. What about all the plant machines, tractors and planes? Well okay planes burn kerosene but you know what I mean and while we are at it all the people who burn heating oil in there houses. All of these uses can not be replaced by electricity. I forgot big ships as well although this isn't stricly diesel either.
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Post by bodger on Dec 31, 2017 12:47:23 GMT
kris is right. ................ big ships run on fuel-oil which is effectively the same as diesel.
Hydrocarbon fuels will be with us for centuries to come, for use mainly in mobile industrial applications....... the advantage of encouraging hydrogen or electric vehicles is that if they proliferate then the existing and easily accessible supply of hydrocarbons will last longer (providing the electricity is generated from renewables or nuclear).
Hydrogen powered vehicles are the obvious solution because they can carry a useful amount of energy in the fuel tank (that was originally sourced from electricity) with minimum weight penalty (no fuel batteries), no increase in manufacturing costs (no batteries using rare elements), fast refuelling and zero emissions (of the damaging kind).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2017 12:57:29 GMT
Personally I don't care about nox, so a few people die, we need to reduce the population and its a good random way. What I do sometimes care about is global warming and CO2 is a big contributor to that so by using a diesel I'm contributing less than if I was driving a petrol car. CO2 emissions in the UK have gone up since dieselgate! Oh and while we are at it we should give up eating meat as that would decrease global warming gasses by a large percentage. We need population control more than we need electric cars..........who is going to be first?
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Post by Mr Stabby on Dec 31, 2017 13:02:28 GMT
We need population control more than we need electric cars..........who is going to be first? Nobody. An ever-increasing population is a basic requirement for the capitalist business model.
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Post by bodger on Dec 31, 2017 14:50:12 GMT
unilever and kraft won't be happy when the population of the earth covers every square metre of usable land surface and there is no way to have any more growth....... for their sakes we should be colonising the moon and the bottom of the oceans.
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Post by bargemast on Jan 8, 2018 20:22:45 GMT
Electric cars are a con, this is what someone very clever said:
Peter.
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Post by peterboat on Jan 9, 2018 0:15:09 GMT
Electric cars are a con, this is what someone very clever said: Peter. What a pretentious twat!!! oil is dug from the ground [well drilled], as time goes on most of our lecce will be from green sources, and as much effort and energy goes into making IC cars as electric. Electric is distributed by wires, diesel etc by lorries more dirty energy used, just as well he is an old fossil cos with twats like him we are truly shagged, I am sure he would come up with a good case for flint being better than matches twat!!! Rant over and glad that twats like him have nothing to do with anything important Twat!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 1:01:53 GMT
Electric cars are a con, this is what someone very clever said: Peter. What a pretentious twat!!! oil is dug from the ground [well drilled], as time goes on most of our lecce will be from green sources, and as much effort and energy goes into making IC cars as electric. Electric is distributed by wires, diesel etc by lorries more dirty energy used, just as well he is an old fossil cos with twats like him we are truly shagged, I am sure he would come up with a good case for flint being better than matches twat!!! Rant over and glad that twats like him have nothing to do with anything important Twat!! Sorry Peter, like his final sentence. You are an idiot. You really do need to wake up climb off your renault thingly and smell the coffee,
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Post by peterboat on Jan 9, 2018 8:56:10 GMT
What a pretentious twat!!! oil is dug from the ground [well drilled], as time goes on most of our lecce will be from green sources, and as much effort and energy goes into making IC cars as electric. Electric is distributed by wires, diesel etc by lorries more dirty energy used, just as well he is an old fossil cos with twats like him we are truly shagged, I am sure he would come up with a good case for flint being better than matches twat!!! Rant over and glad that twats like him have nothing to do with anything important Twat!! Sorry Peter, like his final sentence. You are an idiot. You really do need to wake up climb off your renault thingly and smell the coffee, I smelt the coffee years ago, the world is going electric car, dinosaurs like that twat have no place in the modern world, unless something is done about emissions from cars/transport, their is no future for our grand kids! So I embrace the change the oil barons dont and will pay anybody to say that it will be ok! The same happened with Bush junior when the GMEV was killed off by him as an oil baron it didnt suit his purpose
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 9:27:57 GMT
Sorry Peter, like his final sentence. You are an idiot. You really do need to wake up climb off your renault thingly and smell the coffee, I smelt the coffee years ago, the world is going electric car, dinosaurs like that twat have no place in the modern world, unless something is done about emissions from cars/transport, their is no future for our grand kids! So I embrace the change the oil barons dont and will pay anybody to say that it will be ok! <iframe width="17.200000000000045" height="6.5" style="position: absolute; width: 17.2px; height: 6.5px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 802px; top: -285px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_79784692"></iframe> <iframe width="17.200000000000045" height="6.5" style="position: absolute; width: 17.2px; height: 6.5px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 10px; top: -17px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_86622135"></iframe> <iframe width="17.200000000000045" height="6.5" style="position: absolute; width: 17.2px; height: 6.5px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 802px; top: -17px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_95672248"></iframe> They are a con simply because they move the problem but don't solve it. In years to come the switch to electric will be viewed in a similar vein to the move to diesel cars, smoke and mirrors.
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Post by bargemast on Jan 9, 2018 9:41:33 GMT
Sorry Peter, like his final sentence. You are an idiot. You really do need to wake up climb off your renault thingly and smell the coffee, I smelt the coffee years ago, the world is going electric car, dinosaurs like that twat have no place in the modern world, unless something is done about emissions from cars/transport, their is no future for our grand kids! So I embrace the change the oil barons dont and will pay anybody to say that it will be ok! The same happened with Bush junior when the GMEV was killed off by him as an oil baron it didnt suit his purpose IF the electicity that's needed for these vehicles to charge their very un-green batteries would come from green energy, like wind-farms or solar-energy, they wouldn't be too bad, for city drivers. But as most of our electricity is coming from powerplants that are very far from clean and green, like nuclear, coal and diesel burning, the real problem is only deplaced, but is still very much there. There is plenty of documentation available to them that don't want to know the reality, but as they don't want to know what's true and what's just blind rubbish told by electric car manufacturers and salesman, they will never know, and simply continue telling crap. Peter.
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