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Post by peterboat on Jan 9, 2018 11:30:18 GMT
The car makers dont want to go electric!! they are being dragged into the modern world kicking and screaming!! They would still be producing old pre euro vehicles if they could, however the scientists can see the effect of pollution and the changing weather patterns so change is needed and thats electric. Hydrogen is a joke as you create pollution making it then have to use tankers to distribute it same as fossil fuel really. In this country the turbines stand idle in the day why? because they arnt needed if we had more electric vehicles they would be spinning charging them up. On a constant basis we are now having no power made by coal days, the quicker there are no coal/gas/oil power stations the better, Nuclear/renewable for the base renewable for the peak is the way forward, and no dirty polluting IC engines anywhere hooray
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 11:39:28 GMT
The infrastructure required to make it viable for electric only transportation is too costly and disruptive - be it from power generation to delivering to the end user.
You still haven't explained how people without off road parking will charge their vehicles. Who is going to pay to replace the undersized cabling serving properties once the demand for charging becomes so great the existing grid infrastructure can't cope?
Those questions need answering before any thoughts of a pure electric utopia can become a reality.
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Post by bargemast on Jan 9, 2018 12:39:58 GMT
The infrastructure required to make it viable for electric only transportation is too costly and disruptive - be it from power generation to delivering to the end user. You still haven't explained how people without off road parking will charge their vehicles. Who is going to pay to replace the undersized cabling serving properties once the demand for charging becomes so great the existing grid infrastructure can't cope? Those questions need answering before any thoughts of a pure electric utopia can become a reality. Your arguments are only minor details gazza , electric cars are the future (if you like problems ). I have to run my genny to keep my batteries charged if there's not enough sunshine (all winter), an electric car for me would be ideal, I can just sit in it, without going anywhere, showing everybody, that's still driving around in their cars that don't need the electicity that I don't have, how clean- and green I am. If I would be able to drive with charged batteries, I could maybe drive it for a short distance (as the autonomy is pretty bad for the time being) and break down among all the other broken down electric cars with empty batteries on the roads where there aren't any (or not enough closely spaced apart) charging possibilities. My car is only very rarely used for town driving, I do most of my shopping trips on the bicycle, the car is only if I need too heavy gear to be moved-, or stuff too big for safe transport on my bicycle, or to go to places simply too far away to go by bicycle. I use my bus to ferry water to the boat, a much more economical way of filling the tank, than going to the waterpoint by boat, and also much quicker, a lot more convenient, I could never do that with an electric car either. But.... as we are all entitled to have our dreams (of which I still have plenty myself) I won't stop anyone else from having them about the silly dreams of electric cars. Peter.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Jan 9, 2018 13:10:21 GMT
I'd like to see a full study done on all polluting aspects of petrol/ diesel/ electric cars. All aspects, from design to production to usage and scrappage. I'd like to see this carried out by a person/ body without bias, and the results published in such a way that they are easily understandable to all. It seems very strange to me, that such a thing hasn't been carried out or if it has, the results haven't been published. Without this, any assertions made by anyone as to the relative benefits of each vehicle type is nothing more than speculation, most often of the biased variety.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 13:26:56 GMT
I know its too simple but my idea of electric cars would be based around this simple arrangement: Short distance urban transport to be limited to getting home from the main roads. (Congestion charge). Arterial roads and motorways to be lined with solar farms and wind turbines (nobody can moan about the noise of wind turbines if there is traffic noise anyway ) and any other modern technology which becomes available. These roads to have scaled up scalextric type power takeoff arrangements to charge the battery driven cars while they are moving. I know. It'll never work.
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Post by kris on Jan 9, 2018 13:33:56 GMT
I know its too simple but my idea of electric cars would be based around this simple arrangement: Short distance urban transport to be limited to getting home from the main roads. (Congestion charge). Arterial roads and motorways to be lined with solar farms and wind turbines (nobody can moan about the noise of wind turbines if there is traffic noise anyway ) and any other modern technology which becomes available. These roads to have scaled up scalextric type power takeoff arrangements to charge the battery driven cars while they are moving. I know. It'll never work. youve hit the nail on the head, turn the road network into a big scalextric track.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 13:46:36 GMT
The main thing that I think is missing from this conversation is the effect autonomous cars will have. I do believe that in the not too distant future many people will start to think about whether they actually need to own a car, if this happens then the advantage of electric cars could increase dramatically.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 13:50:51 GMT
I know its too simple but my idea of electric cars would be based around this simple arrangement: Short distance urban transport to be limited to getting home from the main roads. (Congestion charge). Arterial roads and motorways to be lined with solar farms and wind turbines (nobody can moan about the noise of wind turbines if there is traffic noise anyway ) and any other modern technology which becomes available. These roads to have scaled up scalextric type power takeoff arrangements to charge the battery driven cars while they are moving. I know. It'll never work. youve hit the nail on the head, turn the road network into a big scalextric track. Too risky, scalextric cars are famous for never staying where they are put for too long - imagine the carnage when the Muppets in charge of the controller max the rheostat....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 14:09:11 GMT
I know its too simple but my idea of electric cars would be based around this simple arrangement: Short distance urban transport to be limited to getting home from the main roads. (Congestion charge). Arterial roads and motorways to be lined with solar farms and wind turbines (nobody can moan about the noise of wind turbines if there is traffic noise anyway ) and any other modern technology which becomes available. These roads to have scaled up scalextric type power takeoff arrangements to charge the battery driven cars while they are moving. I know. It'll never work. youve hit the nail on the head, turn the road network into a big scalextric track. It seems odd that all the talk is about range anxiety and stopping to "fill up" the battery. With modern lane assist type tech you can be driving your car and it keeps itself aligned within the chosen lane. Surely its not rocket science to arrange an electricity transfer while the vehicle is in a particular lane? Perhaps a financial incentive via tolls to not change lanes until exiting the road? Maybe if you remained in one lane then you would pay less for the leccy. Or something. and accidents would be banned. I'm looking forward to when someone works out how to transfer electric power through a 6 inch air gap. That will be interesting. I don't think directly powering cars from in-road contacts would work because it would be too expensive but doing it for battery charging on arterial and motorways seems feasible. Of course the obvious thing is to simply belt drive an alternator from one of the car's wheels to get power.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 14:33:19 GMT
I'd like to see a full study done on all polluting aspects of petrol/ diesel/ electric cars. All aspects, from design to production to usage and scrappage. I'd like to see this carried out by a person/ body without bias, and the results published in such a way that they are easily understandable to all. It seems very strange to me, that such a thing hasn't been carried out or if it has, the results haven't been published. Without this, any assertions made by anyone as to the relative benefits of each vehicle type is nothing more than speculation, most often of the biased variety. The issue isn't really about saying fossil fuels put into cars has any real benefit over electricty being put into them. The issue is that so far the advantages of electric as portrayed in an almost evangenical fashion are completely missing the whole story. The strive to get to electrification seems to completely ignore that electricity is not free from an environmental perspective. It just gets conveniently ignored because the pollution created just simply occurs away from where the vehicle is being driven. But you are correct an independent comparitive research study is what is required. It would need to factor in all the impacts of both types of vehicles from the day they are manufactured (including the manufacturing of the materials to make them to end of life disposal costs, with the results portrayed in an easy to digest format. I strongly suspect we will never see such a thing because I would wager it will burst the bubble of the electric vehicle lobby and wipe the rather smug grin off their chops.
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Post by naughtyfox on Jan 9, 2018 15:09:44 GMT
I like Dr Vernon Coleman. Sorry Peter :/ However... what about electricity produced by water power like that cascading down the fells of Norway? Isn't that cheap, clean, easy-to-get electricity?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 15:18:26 GMT
I like Dr Vernon Coleman. Sorry Peter :/ However... what about electricity produced by water power like that cascading down the fells of Norway? Isn't that cheap, clean, easy-to-get electricity? The Civils needed to build the damns and turbine halls long with the transmission infrastructure are not very green though - i wonder what the break even point is? Same as PV - nasty things to make that require a lot of energy and materials to try and save energy by harvesting energy from the ball in the sky!
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Post by naughtyfox on Jan 9, 2018 15:19:49 GMT
youve hit the nail on the head, turn the road network into a big scalextric track. Surely its not rocket science to arrange an electricity transfer while the vehicle is in a particular lane?
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Post by peterboat on Jan 9, 2018 19:11:04 GMT
Cold country like Noway which reduces range yet halve the cars there sold were electric.................... It doesnt matter what you dinosaurs say or think, electric cars are coming and they are coming far faster than you think.....or want, and the reality is you dont matter because the young uns are more than happy to have self driving electric cars/lorries/buses/trains/planes etc
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Post by peterboat on Jan 10, 2018 0:33:04 GMT
Cold country like Noway which reduces range yet halve the cars there sold were electric.... I'll meet you in Narvik and we'll watch the cars go past and count the electric ones and those with an exhaust pipe! I find that claim to be hard to swallow. Ain't one single car passes me on the way to work - and we are next-door to Norway. My belief is that vehicles will still be using internal combustion engines in the future (say 500 years from now) because that's the only way you're going to get that kind of raw power, but that fuel will be synthetic, produced by solar panels or similar. You know, Britain had a much more comprehensive railway system, what an excellent way to transport - but through greed for profit the Brits closed, what, two thirds (?) of it down and dug up the tracks! The keys to the problems of the future are there, but not when you have a nation that's only interested in pubbin' and a-clubbin' and a Government that's only concerned with back-stabbing and creaming in the easy money. Get the old railways back up and running for starters. And the waterways. No-one will ever admit it, but 90% of vehicle journeys by car are unnecessary anyway. You don't need to live in Plymouth and go on holiday in Fort William, or live in Norwich and have to visit your granny in Skegness, by car. It's all so inefficient. As for lorries - yes, bringing crappy Zanussi washing machines - what a waste of raw materials, time and effort all round. You need another fleet of trucks to take them back to be repaired 6 months later! Look at the 'ethnic yoof' of Dewsbury going VRRrrooooMM! VRRrrooooMM! round the streets of that town in their fancy cars - are those 'journeys' necessary? I can't say I've seen a single electric car up this way - apart from some old fart in some kind of electric super-wheelchair/golf-kart who will insist on going on the main roads around Kannus driving at 4mph and holding everyone up, the senile old git - what about all the fuel of the vehicles behind him he's wasting whilst those vehicles are burning it inefficiently just because of him? That nullifies his 'savings' straight away. Rarely is the issue of overpopulation addressed, either. Get rid of 75% of humans and for those remaining, instead of having petrol for 100 years, they'll have enough for 400 years! And another thing - we've all noticed is the fashion for the wealthy to swan around in 4x4 'Chelsea Tractors' - why is no-one telling THEM to stop wasting fuel? The rich don't seem to care one jot about wasting the planet's resources, do they? Simples google it but you knew that Foxy Over half of new car sales in Norway are electric or hybrid ... www.pri.org/stories/2018-01-03/over-half-new-car<... Jan 02, 2018 · Sales of electric and hybrid cars rose above half of new registrations in Norway in 2017
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