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Post by bargemast on Dec 30, 2017 10:48:35 GMT
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 30, 2017 11:17:03 GMT
It's a simple con to boost the car industry. Dumping them cheap in the uk couldn't prop it up forever. Making every single oil powered car redundant, forcing them off the roads, will get them through the next few decades. Our own car industry is just a sop to appeal to Northern voters. I notice uk intentions are lagging behind other countries that actually make cars.
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Post by kris on Dec 30, 2017 11:26:18 GMT
That's interesting and is what I have thought all along. It's just a big con to boost car companies income when people have to scrap their cars and replace them with electric ones. It doesn't even go into the scarcity of the metals in the batteries. Surely it's better to run a vechile until the end of its life, rather than scrap it premerturly.
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Post by peterboat on Dec 30, 2017 11:50:55 GMT
Usual total bollacks!! selective facts to give them the answer they want! Drilling for oil, refining oil, distributing oil, all creates huge amounts of pollution if you add that into the mix you would realise just how bad diesel/petrol is. It doesnt matter what the press says or does you just know like politicians they are lying because its what they do
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 12:12:49 GMT
Usual suspects spouting their usual drivel.
And to nail my colours to the mast I have just bought another diesel car and had it remapped.
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Post by kris on Dec 30, 2017 12:18:41 GMT
Usual total bollacks!! selective facts to give them the answer they want! Drilling for oil, refining oil, distributing oil, all creates huge amounts of pollution if you add that into the mix you would realise just how bad diesel/petrol is. It doesnt matter what the press says or does you just know like politicians they are lying because its what they do so what about the extraction of the rare earth metals for the batteries? Remember they will get thrown after five years or so or when they don't produce the range required. Also don't forget that electric cars still have petro chemicals involved in their production. The plastics involved plus the energy it takes to produce them. I know your an advocate of electric vechiles Peter, but it really isn't as clear cut as you would like us to beleive.
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 30, 2017 12:21:23 GMT
Usual suspects spouting their usual drivel. And to nail my colours to the mast I have just bought another diesel car and had it remapped. Good for you, my only vehicle is a 70's brick with a modified 2.4l carb fuelled engine, under 20mpg. Get it while you can. π
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Post by kris on Dec 30, 2017 12:31:16 GMT
As the article says if the goverment was really concerned about co2 emissions they would limit the size (weight) of cars allowed. Plus maybe develop the public transport networks in cities to cut down on the number of journeys undertaken by only one person in a Car. But no industry needs to sell things, so we will develop a new technology which isn't really much better and force people to buy into it. Just changing one set of problems for another.
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Post by bargemast on Dec 30, 2017 12:57:52 GMT
Something else that I don' appreciate about the electric cars is that they are still very costly, so only people that have no serious lack of money can afford one.
Buying a cheaper secondhand one would be a disaster, as you are likely soon in the need of new batteries, that cost more than a good secondhand diesel car.
A diesel (or petrol) car you buy second hand may need a few things to be renewed too, like a waterpump and a timing belt, which are things that many people can do themselfs, and won't caost anywhere near the price of a battery-pack for an electric car.
Filling up the tank of an ordinary car will take only a few minutes, and then you can do close to 1000kms (625Mls) before you'll need to fill up again. and it isn't difficult to find a filling station.
If you are silly enough to have a breakdown because of an empty tank, it's not all that difficult to find someone that can help you out with 5 Ltrs, which will be plenty to get to a filling station somewhere, but if you end up somewhere with an empty battery, I don't think that your problem will be as easy to solve.
For me it's just a political scam to get people in electric cars and give the car industry a new boost, while polluting differently but just as much (if not more).
Maybe for someone that only does short runs in the city it may be good, if he has the means to recharge at his place, I don't have shore power, so I would have to run my genny to charge the batteries of my electric car (that I'll never have), I can't think of anything crazier.
I will continu with my old diesels that I still can maintain myself (for the time being) and drive as economical as possible, as I can't afford-, and don't want to waste fuel, brakes and tires.
Peter.
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Post by kris on Dec 30, 2017 12:58:39 GMT
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 30, 2017 13:02:55 GMT
The elephant in the room is that less cars doing less miles is the answer, but that ultimately means less tax. I worked from home for 20 years and hardly used a vehicle as everything we needed was within walking distance. Lucky? Not really, just a backward town lagging behind the modern trend of working, shopping and entertaining yourself miles from where you live. I often wonder if I drive about mid-week during traditional working hours why every road and motorway is jam packed not just with lorries which is a slightly different situation, but with cars. Where are they going? Are they working? Retired? In the mid 60's my dad took me to see the M1. We stood on a footbridge over the motorway and eventually a Morris minor went past at about 40mph. We waited a bit longer to see if another one would come then carried on our walk when none did. At that time anyone who wanted a job had one and we seemed to manage without driving very much so must have been trading among ourselves. We've been seduced into thinking driving = freedom, but it turns out it was freedom to ignore your local community. And tv provides the same when at home.How many people know the lives of soap opera characters intimately but don't know even the names of anyone beyond there immediate neighbours? Modern life is shite. I'd ban tv and cars, simple. That would sort everything out and leave London and south east on a more equal footing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 14:05:48 GMT
The answer to the original question is 'not as green as some would have you believe'. They have become trendy for those who can afford them and allow them to say 'Ooooh look at me, I'm saving the planet'. In reality they are doing nothing of the sort, they are just a stop gap until something genuinely pollution free comes along. When that happens drivers of electric vehicles will be demonised in exactly the same way as drivers of diesel (and to an extent Petrol) vehicles are now. Although a hybrid and not fully electric it was not without good reason why Clarkson used to call the Toyota Prius the 'Pious' It summed up the average driver of them quite nicely.
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Post by bargemast on Dec 30, 2017 14:17:14 GMT
The answer to the original question is 'not as green as some would have you believe'. They have become trendy for those who can afford them and allow them to say 'Ooooh look at me, I'm saving the planet'. In reality they are doing nothing of the sort, they are just a stop gap until something genuinely pollution free comes along. When that happens drivers of electric vehicles will be demonised in exactly the same way as drivers of diesel (and to an extent Petrol) vehicles are now. Although a hybrid and not fully electric it was not without good reason why Clarkson used to call the Toyota Prius the 'Pious' It summed up the average driver of them quite nicely. The Prius is a good example that has been around for quite a while now, it's a very reliable car, but useless for people that have to drive long distances, as the electric autonomy isn't much and also only good for low speed town driving, or shuffeling in traffic jam for a few minutes, as the internal combustion engine has to come in to save the car from getting stuck. If you're doing mainly long distance motorway travelling, the non-electric engine is doing all the work, and you're using extra fuel to transport the very heavy load of the in such a case useless batteries you're carrying. Maybe one day, someone will come up with the real solution. Peter.
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Post by larkboy on Dec 30, 2017 15:52:30 GMT
What about the hydrogen fuel cell? You can fill up at a traditional filling station that's been equipped to supply liquid hydrogen. You get similar ranges to petrol/diesel vehicles but all that comes out of the tailpipe is water. No heavy batteries to lug about, just the fuel cell and the car is electrically powered. I seem to recall James May doing a piece on Top Gear around 2005/6 where in a county in California Shell had supplied the hydrogen delivery infrastructure and Honda supplied a fuel cell version of the Civic. I don't know what goes into making a fuel cell, but I'm guessing it might be less throwaway than a battery bank. I realise liquid hydrogen has to be stored at high pressure, I'm sure we have the technology to make it as safe to carry on vehicles as petrol or lpg. This would enable transport with little pollution without cables running everywhere and without collapsing the national grid.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 17:14:06 GMT
The answer to the original question is 'not as green as some would have you believe'. They have become trendy for those who can afford them and allow them to say 'Ooooh look at me, I'm saving the planet'. In reality they are doing nothing of the sort, they are just a stop gap until something genuinely pollution free comes along. When that happens drivers of electric vehicles will be demonised in exactly the same way as drivers of diesel (and to an extent Petrol) vehicles are now. Although a hybrid and not fully electric it was not without good reason why Clarkson used to call the Toyota Prius the 'Pious'Β Β It summed up the average driver of them quite nicely. I thought PRIUS was an acronym for Pretty Ridiculous Incomprehensible Useless Scrap. I quite like electric cars but I'd like it a lot more of society in general was weened off car useage. That's not going to happen as the car gives people "freedom" just what sort of freedom that is is debatable imo. Perhaps the freedom to be remotely controlled ?
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