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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 19:11:32 GMT
This is my last attempt
If that's your view, that's fine by me, but I have every right to say it's appalling, because that's my view.
To go on to call everyone names, abuse others and make accusations is not fine by me.
I suspect that's the issue for others too, but I wouldn't presume to speak for anyone but myself.
I will shut up now.
Sorry I kicked this off.
Rog
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 19:14:38 GMT
GAZZA
NO, THAT'S NO EXCUSE.
Too bloody late again.
Rog
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 19:15:42 GMT
That's a bizarre statement. In no way have I changed my views opinions or writing style - it's not as if I've ever (or am likely to for that matter) played to the crowd is it? As far as I can see you are trying to push the limits of what many people find acceptable. To what gain or goal I am not sure. Then you see wrong and I resent you not actually bothering to read my carefully written post and just plonking a trite “QED”. Lazy and insulting, you are just enjoying being one of the pack. I had previously had you down as better than that. Apart from using the C word, exactly what have I posted that tries to push the limits of what people find acceptable? You are just chucking random accusations and insults around without any supporting facts or evidence. Amazingly Nick, I do have to attend to matters in the real world from time to time. Currently it is having a pitched battle with a willful child that refuses to go to bed Your long-winded and hot air filled post seemed to me to require no more than those three letters. That's it, no ulterior motive, no agenda, no laziness. Just no need whatsoever to expand more energy or thought than this QED 👍 If that boils your piss, hard lines I'm afraid.
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Post by Telemachus on Feb 5, 2018 19:16:02 GMT
This is my last attempt If that's your view, that's fine by me, but I have every right to say it's appalling, because that's my view. To go on to call everyone names, abuse others and make accusations is not fine by me. I suspect that's the issue for others too, but I wouldn't presume to speak for anyone but myself. I will shut up now. Sorry I kicked this off. Rog I confused how. Please tell me exactly which view I hold that you find appalling? You are quite entitled to find a view I hold appalling, but it would be nice to tell me which one! Edit: no on second thoughts don’t bother. I have put considerable effort into trying to eliminate this misunderstanding but there is no will for it. If you want to think I am just a horrible person - fine by me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 19:17:33 GMT
Can't work out how to copy post from one thread to another, but this was what pissed me off. Feb 2, 2018 at 9:49pm Posted by Nick.
If your children have been abused, you have already “let them down”. Making a huge public unlawful fuss about it afterwards just makes it worse.Now how would a normal person interpret that? Before that the thread was just an exchange of views. Is it your contention that I’m wrong and that parents tend not to feel guilty when something bad happens to their kids unless they were directly responsible for it? Not at all. I was just surprised that you didn't see the way your post had been misinterpreted that is all. I also misinterpreted it.
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Post by Telemachus on Feb 5, 2018 19:21:53 GMT
Is it your contention that I’m wrong and that parents tend not to feel guilty when something bad happens to their kids unless they were directly responsible for it? Not at all. I was just surprised that you didn't see the way your post had been misinterpreted that is all. I also misinterpreted it. As I explained at the time, the quotes were not there randomly. I thought that most people were aware that parents tend to blame themselves for anything bad happening to their children and thus I was expressing a well known concept. I didn’t feel I needed to explain the minutia of it. It really didn’t seem a big deal to me when I wrote it. Silly me, I should have realised that if there is a possible interpretation that can be used to generate outrage, it will be. I am used to the most probable interpretation being the one taken, but that doesn’t apply on here.
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Post by Telemachus on Feb 5, 2018 19:24:25 GMT
In any case, if there is ambiguity in a post why not seek clarification rather than launching straight into a salvo of frothing outrage having taken the worst possible interpretation? This is what pisses me off,
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 20:00:15 GMT
In any case, if there is ambiguity in a post why not seek clarification rather than launching straight into a salvo of frothing outrage having taken the worst possible interpretation? This is what pisses me off,
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Post by patty on Feb 5, 2018 20:13:15 GMT
There are several on here who verbally let lose as apposed to seeking clarification......
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Post by thebfg on Feb 5, 2018 23:08:23 GMT
Not at all. I was just surprised that you didn't see the way your post had been misinterpreted that is all. I also misinterpreted it. As I explained at the time, the quotes were not there randomly. I thought that most people were aware that parents tend to blame themselves for anything bad happening to their children and thus I was expressing a well known concept. I didn’t feel I needed to explain the minutia of it. It really didn’t seem a big deal to me when I wrote it. Silly me, I should have realised that if there is a possible interpretation that can be used to generate outrage, it will be. I am used to the most probable interpretation being the one taken, but that doesn’t apply on here. I first thought the same when reading the post and couldent beleive you put that so I read it again and kind of agreed with the thought. I'm not so sure on letting them down but I imagine in certain occasions they will definatly feel guilty to some extent. Especially if it is someone they knew and let into the child's life. I am also unsure of the public outcry thing. Yes I will accept social engineering happens and obviously some people want to be publicly offended because a they enjoy it or b it's the seen thing to be done. The recent fad of accusing dead celebs is probably a good example. I don't think that all abuse victims feel the way they do because of it. Some have real strong issues that they can never get through. Especially if they received continuing severe abuse over a long time. I am happy to carry on listening about the new research although I will find it hard to believe it's a blanket coverage for everyone suffering trauma. Hence my ww1 shell shock comment. Although to contrary belief, I do read other views and take them in. But I do like a good debate and will often play devils advocate just to stoke the debate even if I agree.
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Post by Telemachus on Feb 6, 2018 8:11:44 GMT
Thank you for your rational and thought - through post. Unfortunately I think this thread has gone too far down the pan to resurrect and I won’t be responding. Perhaps someone else will?
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Post by naughtyfox on Feb 6, 2018 8:24:50 GMT
Not at all like you then? One of the problems with this and other such sites is that the groupthink is all powerful. I like to think my views and opinions are based on my own personal experiences and intellectual analysis of events: "things that were, things that are, and some things that have not yet come to pass".
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Post by kris on Feb 6, 2018 8:55:55 GMT
As I explained at the time, the quotes were not there randomly. I thought that most people were aware that parents tend to blame themselves for anything bad happening to their children and thus I was expressing a well known concept. I didn’t feel I needed to explain the minutia of it. It really didn’t seem a big deal to me when I wrote it. Silly me, I should have realised that if there is a possible interpretation that can be used to generate outrage, it will be. I am used to the most probable interpretation being the one taken, but that doesn’t apply on here. I first thought the same when reading the post and couldent beleive you put that so I read it again and kind of agreed with the thought. I'm not so sure on letting them down but I imagine in certain occasions they will definatly feel guilty to some extent. Especially if it is someone they knew and let into the child's life. I am also unsure of the public outcry thing. Yes I will accept social engineering happens and obviously some people want to be publicly offended because a they enjoy it or b it's the seen thing to be done. The recent fad of accusing dead celebs is probably a good example. I don't think that all abuse victims feel the way they do because of it. Some have real strong issues that they can never get through. Especially if they received continuing severe abuse over a long time. I am happy to carry on listening about the new research although I will find it hard to believe it's a blanket coverage for everyone suffering trauma. Hence my ww1 shell shock comment. Although to contrary belief, I do read other views and take them in. But I do like a good debate and will often play devils advocate just to stoke the debate even if I agree. dont let him off the hook, keep him squirming. It's fun watching Nick making a prick out of himself, then trying to wriggle out of it.
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Post by Telemachus on Feb 6, 2018 9:02:31 GMT
NO! Firstly, the problem arose because people misinterpreted what I wrote You wrote: If your children have been abused, you have already “let them down”
"A court outburst does not help the victim, it only helps alleviate the inevitable guilt that a parent feels as a result of letting the kid down (in their eyes), in other words it’s a selfish action."
This is what puzzles me, as there is no need to feel any guilt if your actions as a parent are what they should have been, ie. you did not deliberately cause the situation/crime/happening/accident/abuse, etc. And this is what has got backs up with the parents who are feeling indignant, rightly so if they feel they have been good parents (and indeed may be/have been).
No amount of explanation or 'group-thinking-outcry' is going to sort this one out, as it doesn't make any sense to start with. Signed, A Thickie.A thickie who is for some reason using a near-invisible font. I stand by what said. A parent whose child has been abused tends to feel they have let their kids down. It is not rational or logical, but it is how parents feel. It’s how they are wired, in general. As far as I am concerned this is “general knowledge” and not some wild offensive idea I’ve created just to wind folk up. When I posted it, I really didn’t expect outrage. Well, it’s how I’m told parents feel by just about everyone except those few on here making a fuss. Surely you can see the difference between it being the parent’s fault, and them nevertheless feeling instinctively it was their fault / feeling guilt? I cited my own mother who, through no fault of her own, gave birth to my sister with a genetic fault that has left her seriously disabled. She is now 95, my sister 63, and she still feels guilt. if you disagree, please state categorically that no parents whose children have been abused by third parties who should have been trustworthy, ever feel they have let their kids down or feel guilty. And can you cite any evidence to support your view?
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Post by naughtyfox on Feb 6, 2018 9:03:23 GMT
By placing the statement in quotation marks we should all have realised that wasn't his view. Sadly he didn't explain that until later. Poor choice of words by him, but rather than chose more appropriate words, he calls us thick, liars etc etc. Rog and I firmly believe we as a group have to find a way of dealing with it I'm no team player, I plough my own furrow to my own impending doom which is tea and scones with the Devil. I do hope it is Yorkshire and not that PG Tips muck.
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