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Post by dyertribe on Feb 14, 2018 23:05:45 GMT
Right, here goes! I am the mother of an IVF conceived daughter who will be 19 on Friday. The NHS paid not one penny towards the IVF, the costs were paid by my husband and I. She is a lovely person (OK I’m biased), and has shown over the last few days just how thoughtful, compassionate and practical she is. Are you suggesting she shouldn’t have been born?
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Post by Telemachus on Feb 14, 2018 23:08:44 GMT
Right, here goes! I am the mother of an IVF conceived daughter who will be 19 on Friday. The NHS paid not one penny towards the IVF, the costs were paid by my husband and I. She is a lovely person (OK I’m biased), and has shown over the last few days just how thoughtful, compassionate and practical she is. Are you suggesting she shouldn’t have been born? Is who suggesting? Not me. Only some ancient fossils on here who slightly resent having to move out of caves, and definitely resent women being given the vote and gay sex being decriminalised.
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Post by dyertribe on Feb 14, 2018 23:13:59 GMT
Right, here goes! I am the mother of an IVF conceived daughter who will be 19 on Friday. The NHS paid not one penny towards the IVF, the costs were paid by my husband and I. She is a lovely person (OK I’m biased), and has shown over the last few days just how thoughtful, compassionate and practical she is. Are you suggesting she shouldn’t have been born? Is who suggesting? Not me. Only some ancient fossils on here who slightly resent having to move out of caves, and definitely resent women being given the vote and gay sex being decriminalised. I wasn’t aiming my comments at you Telemachus. My comments were directed to the male (you know the sex that can’t bring a foetus to term) who feels he should deny me having a family and wants to dictate how I spend my hard earned money.
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Post by JohnV on Feb 14, 2018 23:15:42 GMT
Right, here goes! I am the mother of an IVF conceived daughter who will be 19 on Friday. The NHS paid not one penny towards the IVF, the costs were paid by my husband and I. She is a lovely person (OK I’m biased), and has shown over the last few days just how thoughtful, compassionate and practical she is. Are you suggesting she shouldn’t have been born? In effect .... yes I don't believe that you should try to get round what fate decrees. By using the phrase "are you suggesting she shouldn't have been born" you are turning the question in a different and emotive direction. It is nothing to do with the child ..... purely to do with parents. I repeat I do not believe that you should try to get round what your biology has decreed as your natural state
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Post by Telemachus on Feb 14, 2018 23:19:12 GMT
Right, here goes! I am the mother of an IVF conceived daughter who will be 19 on Friday. The NHS paid not one penny towards the IVF, the costs were paid by my husband and I. She is a lovely person (OK I’m biased), and has shown over the last few days just how thoughtful, compassionate and practical she is. Are you suggesting she shouldn’t have been born? In effect .... yes I don't believe that you should try to get round what fate decrees. By using the phrase "are you suggesting she shouldn't have been born" you are turning the question in a different and emotive direction. It is nothing to do with the child ..... purely to do with parents. I repeat I do not believe that you should try to get round what your biology has decreed as your natural state So presumably if you got cancer or any other serious illness or injury, you would refuse all treatment for it because that is what fate decreed / your natural state? If not, you are a hypocrite.
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Post by JohnV on Feb 14, 2018 23:20:56 GMT
however good your "proper" school you are a perfect proof of the old saying that you can't educate pork
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Post by dyertribe on Feb 14, 2018 23:22:05 GMT
In my case it was an undiagnosed brain tumour which hindered my conceiving naturally.
By extrapolation, we should not perform hip replacements as nature decreed you were meant to have arthritis. Bowel cancer? Nature meant you to die. As a cure for the crisis in the NHS I think you have a point, however, I doubt the public would vote for the idea.
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Post by dyertribe on Feb 14, 2018 23:23:24 GMT
however good your "proper" school you are a perfect proof of the old saying that you can't educate pork I don’t know who you aimed that comment at but I fear it says more about you than them.
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Post by JohnV on Feb 14, 2018 23:29:41 GMT
In my case it was an undiagnosed brain tumour which hindered my conceiving naturally. By extrapolation, we should not perform hip replacements as nature decreed you were meant to have arthritis. Bowel cancer? Nature meant you to die. As a cure for the crisis in the NHS I think you have a point, however, I doubt the public would vote for the idea. treatment for a disease is somewhat different trying to get round a genetic problem is somewhat different and as I said in my initial post, this is just what I feel ..... my view ..... I don't try and force it on anyonelse and incidentally my last post was aimed at Nick, who as par for the course, has to jump in and be insulting
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Post by thebfg on Feb 14, 2018 23:32:42 GMT
Right, here goes! I am the mother of an IVF conceived daughter who will be 19 on Friday. The NHS paid not one penny towards the IVF, the costs were paid by my husband and I. She is a lovely person (OK I’m biased), and has shown over the last few days just how thoughtful, compassionate and practical she is. Are you suggesting she shouldn’t have been born? Whilst I agreed with John, I did forget to add. That whilst I beleive that, I don't really mind or care want others get up to. My saying is what i apply to my life not to others. To add to further points, it's about genetics not about modern medicine fixing things. My view is kind of more designer babies than cancer cures. And Nick yes we can have decent debate about emotive subjects 😉
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Post by dyertribe on Feb 14, 2018 23:39:50 GMT
In my case it was an undiagnosed brain tumour which hindered my conceiving naturally. By extrapolation, we should not perform hip replacements as nature decreed you were meant to have arthritis. Bowel cancer? Nature meant you to die. As a cure for the crisis in the NHS I think you have a point, however, I doubt the public would vote for the idea. treatment for a disease is somewhat different trying to get round a genetic problem is somewhat different and as I said in my initial post, this is just what I feel ..... my view ..... I don't try and force it on anyonelse and incidentally my last post was aimed at Nick, who as par for the course, has to jump in and be insulting Whilst I don’t see eye to eye with Nick on everything, his comment here was spot on, if you think that IVF should not be used to circumvent a genetic problem and produce a healthy child BUT you DO believe that the genetic predisposition for arthritis and bowel chances should be treated they you are a hypocrite. That’s just what I feel. ..... my view .... I don’t try to force it on anyone else
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Post by Telemachus on Feb 14, 2018 23:40:54 GMT
In my case it was an undiagnosed brain tumour which hindered my conceiving naturally. By extrapolation, we should not perform hip replacements as nature decreed you were meant to have arthritis. Bowel cancer? Nature meant you to die. As a cure for the crisis in the NHS I think you have a point, however, I doubt the public would vote for the idea. treatment for a disease is somewhat different trying to get round a genetic problem is somewhat different and as I said in my initial post, this is just what I feel ..... my view ..... I don't try and force it on anyonelse and incidentally my last post was aimed at Nick, who as par for the course, has to jump in and be insulting I wasn’t insulting, just stating the obvious that if you think people shouldn’t be doing unnatural things with regard to cheating nature for procreation, exactly the same applies to prolonging the life of some miserable old git who is ill. Unless you are a hypocrite of course.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 23:49:17 GMT
Nature is such, that two men cannot shag each other and have a baby, yet. This is the actual point. Dragging it off course and suggesting it compares to ivf etc is ridiculous. In my view anyway.
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Post by Telemachus on Feb 14, 2018 23:53:29 GMT
Nature is such, that two men cannot shag each other and have a baby, yet. This is the actual point. Dragging it off course and suggesting it compares to ivf etc is ridiculous. In my view anyway. You are so thick. Of course two men can shag each other and have a baby. They get on with the rumpy-pumpy fun bit, meanwhile some poor woman with a turkey baster does all the hard work. In what way is that not a great way of doing it?
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Post by JohnV on Feb 14, 2018 23:56:05 GMT
treatment for a disease is somewhat different trying to get round a genetic problem is somewhat different and as I said in my initial post, this is just what I feel ..... my view ..... I don't try and force it on anyonelse and incidentally my last post was aimed at Nick, who as par for the course, has to jump in and be insulting Whilst I don’t see eye to eye with Nick on everything, his comment here was spot on, if you think that IVF should not be used to circumvent a genetic problem and produce a healthy child BUT you DO believe that the genetic predisposition for arthritis and bowel chances should be treated they you are a hypocrite. That’s just what I feel. ..... my view .... I don’t try to force it on anyone else For a start, in the two diseases you picked the majority of cases, are by a long way, without any genetic basis but are caused by environmental factors. Secondly if you wish to be personally insulting, it might be considered that in a desperately overcrowded world, to use extreme methods to bring another child into the world when you have been handed the short straw, could be considered selfish. I have not said that I am against adoption Incidentally if you can't see the difference between the alleviation of pain and suffering and bringing a new life into the world then I'm sorry but there is nothing else to say
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