Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 18:53:03 GMT
To be fair the old Harland and Wolff narrow boats (the GUCCI Wool witches) routinely used the tideway. However that was before the modern commuter and thrill ride boats arrived.
The thrill ride ribs are a real nuisance.
Narrow boats are okay as long as you get the timing right clean fuel and take it easy. The tide does move a bit so you need to concentrate around bridges.
I don't think narrow boats should be banned. After all
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 18:55:27 GMT
I remember once waiting for the morning tide at Teddington (going Eastbound) when a narrow boat turned up late at night expecting the lockie to let them through. Some people just rely on maps! As it happens Teddington is a 24 hour manned lock which always has enough water below it. Other than the PLA draw off which is once a year for a short time the reach between Teddington and Richmond half lock will always have enough water to navigate. So the lock is available 24/7 without booking. It would be a bad keeper saying it wasn't. However IF you said you were going to Brentford they could advise against if it was the wrong timing but you are allowed to go through it is your choice not that of the keeper. Eta obviously they will try to prevent incompetent people in slow canal boats going through at night but if you had a mooring above Richmond half lock for example then you would be able to transit there from Teddington at any time of your choosing. Telling people they are not allowed through outside of the suggested tidal window (including in daytime) is a way to reduce the probability of problems with awkwardly moored boats or boats grounding in Brent creek which does partly dry out at low tide due to it being below the half lock. You can opt to pay to go through the half lock if the barrage is still down. They raise it about 2h each side of high water. I've been through Teddington earlier than normal in my canal boat which is not underpowered and the keeper tried to put me off. In the event I reached the half lock on slack water from Teddington due to the barrage being closed then they lifted the barrage and I passed under it. Shortly afterwards the tide started coming in fast. Its not at all far to Brentford from there but I can see why they try to put people off. If it was a narrow boat with a small engine it could have been a bit awkward.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 19:00:39 GMT
I remember once waiting for the morning tide at Teddington (going Eastbound) when a narrow boat turned up late at night expecting the lockie to let them through. Some people just rely on maps! As it happens Teddington is a 24 hour manned lock which always has enough water below it. Other than the PLA drain off which is once a year for a short time the reach between Teddington and Richmond half lock will always have enough water to navigate. So the lock is available 24/7 without booking. It would be a bad keeper saying it wasn't. However IF you said you were going to Brentford they could advise against if it was the wrong timing but you are allowed to go through it is your choice not that of the keeper. That’s interesting MM and the same impression i got off the lockie. So what if Tony was the lockie?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 19:08:04 GMT
Personally, I think it's stupid for narrow boats to go into choppy water, they are designed for the flat water of canals. Get a proper boat if you want to bash about on rivers and the sea. You don't see many Shire horses at Ascot. You are quite correct sir. But there would be nothing to boast about in the pub.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 19:10:23 GMT
I enjoy that stretch ... on the Clipper.
Doing that stretch in a narrow boat (in my view) is like taking a knife to a gun fight.
Only mention it because it's not often I can agree with foxy.
Rog
|
|
|
Post by naughtyfox on Feb 6, 2019 19:22:06 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 19:32:10 GMT
Watched quite a few of his videos. He chickened out on that trip and placed his trust in a foreigner who gave me the impression he’d never done it before. I say foreigner to meet your expectations, to me, he is a fellow human being. Anyway, they made it but there is little footage of “shit, which arch do I take”?
|
|
|
Post by TonyDunkley on Feb 7, 2019 6:08:46 GMT
There was no one, single cause behind last Summer's spate of incidents involving canal boats on the Thames tideway, but it was C&RT who were sending inexperienced people in ill-equipped and less than ideally suitable boats into what must be the busiest and most congested few miles of commercially used river in the UK. Much of the responsibility for any incidents, mishaps or serious accidents must therefore rest with with those having ultimate control over passage through the locks at Bow, Limehouse, and Brentford. A total of eight incidents was quoted by the PLA, including Mr Stabby's 10 August attempt to widen one of the arches at the Blackfriars Bridges, but thanks in large part to his irresponsible refusal to contact and talk to the PLA, and the witless encouragement and support he received in that from certain TB members, a good opportunity went begging for C&RT, the PLA, and any interested boaters who wanted to join in, to work out and put in place some routine procedures and rules for keeping the inbound, VHF-less, Limehouse ditchcrawlers out of trouble, especially whilst the works in the vicinity of the Blackfriars Bridges (see PLA NtM's M50) remain in place with 2 x arch closures on the Northern bank. Whilst the works and arch closures remain in place at Blackfriars there is a fundamental and dangerous flaw in the PLA Guidance which demands immediate attention. With arches 1 and 2 closed at Blackfriars Bridges, inbound vessels following the instructions in the PLA guidance to give outbounds a red throughout the tideway passage are forced to use the same main working arch that outbound large commercials always use at the Blackfriars Bridges, which is what I think Mr Stabby was doing on 10 August last, and the reason why he was confronted with the tug and tow that frightened him into going hard astern and losing control of his bowels and his boat. If he would produce the -quote - "comprehensive account of the whole incident " which he said he would do on 12 August, it would confirm if my suppositions are correct, and would be very useful to the PLA, and C&RT if they can be persuaded to join in and act like a responsible Harbour Authority, in formulating some standard procedures and measures to avoid the repetition of similar and equally dangerous occurrences in the future. Do you want to ban narrow boats from that stretch of the Thames? Can you recommend anyone who can help people who want to do that stretch? Whatever I, or the PLA might want to do doesn't enter the reckoning. There's an unassailable right of navigation wherever the tide runs, and I can't imagine where you've picked up on the idea that I would want to 'ban' any sort of vessel from any part of the Thames, or come to that, any other river. The boats aren't really the problem, whatever sort or type they are, and boats rarely get themselves into difficulties, that's almost always down to those people who are in charge of boats but aren't up to the tasks they set themselves. Can I recommend anyone to help first-timers on the Thames tideway, . . . well, yes, I can, . . . and it's the same person I'd tell you to take along whatever bit of tidal river, estuary or any other waters you're venturing onto. It's YOU, . . . after having first made yourself thoroughly familiar with every aspect of the waters you're going onto, including the working and operational practices of the commercial vessels you'll be meeting.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 6:49:54 GMT
there was some "chatter" about PLA potentially banning narrow boats or requiring skippers to have some sort of training.
Not sure how that works with the PRN situation. Maybe they could not do it anyway.
I guess Limehouse lock is also subject to the PRN so something like a locking fee would not be an option.
At some stage in the past the PLA started requiring private pleasure boats to have 3rd party liability insurance. This gives the impression they are able to put conditions onto the use of the waterway under their management.
|
|
|
Post by TonyDunkley on Feb 7, 2019 7:59:23 GMT
there was some "chatter" about PLA potentially banning narrow boats or requiring skippers to have some sort of training. Not sure how that works with the PRN situation. Maybe they could not do it anyway. I guess Limehouse lock is also subject to the PRN so something like a locking fee would not be an option. At some stage in the past the PLA started requiring private pleasure boats to have 3rd party liability insurance. This gives the impression they are able to put conditions onto the use of the waterway under their management. They can put (Byelaw) conditions on the use of their waters, but the PRN precludes anything more. All the PLA really can or could do to discourage private boats would be to impose a Byelaw requirement for demonstrable/provable levels of competence for pleasure craft skippers, which in themselves are pretty meaningless. The RYA used to run courses for inland waterway skippers certificates in Nottingham, and most of the people they presented with their Certificates at the end of the courses weren't even up to operating a radio-controlled model on a park boating lake. My own view is that if there continue to be goon shows such as provided by Mr Shit-for-Brains last August, particularly when followed up by failing to contact them to report the incident and then making light of it on internet forums such as this and Faecesbook, the PLA may well introduce something along the lines of a compulsory convoy/pilotage requirement for pleasure craft.
|
|
|
Post by patty on Feb 7, 2019 8:01:42 GMT
When I visit London I always go Tate to Tate on river transport...beats underground or buses and then I walk back to sons past parliament and up to the busy busy bits, stopping at a certain shoe shop to try on their latest fantastical creations which I do not now buy cos they kill your feet(with age sadly comes wisdom on the shoe front)...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 8:37:21 GMT
Compulsory pilotage sounds like an interesting possibility. That would probably put quite a lot of people off it considering Limehouse inward bound is not in itself a route needed to get somewhere because you can easily do it via the Grand Union Regents section and Paddington arm plus GU mainline down to Brentford. It takes a lot longer though.
|
|
|
Post by JohnV on Feb 7, 2019 8:42:20 GMT
The PLA boundary ends at London Stone, Chalkwell. now think of the thousands of private boats permanently between there and Teddington
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 8:43:24 GMT
Do you want to ban narrow boats from that stretch of the Thames? Can you recommend anyone who can help people who want to do that stretch? Whatever I, or the PLA might want to do doesn't enter the reckoning. There's an unassailable right of navigation wherever the tide runs, and I can't imagine where you've picked up on the idea that I would want to 'ban' any sort of vessel from any part of the Thames, or come to that, any other river. The boats aren't really the problem, whatever sort or type they are, and boats rarely get themselves into difficulties, that's almost always down to those people who are in charge of boats but aren't up to the tasks they set themselves. Can I recommend anyone to help first-timers on the Thames tideway, . . . well, yes, I can, . . . and it's the same person I'd tell you to take along whatever bit of tidal river, estuary or any other waters you're venturing onto. It's YOU, . . . after having first made yourself thoroughly familiar with every aspect of the waters you're going onto, including the working and operational practices of the commercial vessels you'll be meeting. Ok, fair enough Tony, however whenever I get around to doing that stretch I will go out with the St.Pancras club. Reading is better accompanied with practical help (even if that’s just following another boat). BTW John, thanks for the link. dev.stpancrascc.co.uk/ I’m glad you aren’t against narrow boats doing that stretch. I’m sure I read somewhere on the web a while back that there was a number of people trying to stop them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 8:45:19 GMT
PLA did ban hire narrow boats but the ban was lifted shortly afterwards.
|
|