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Post by TonyDunkley on Jun 21, 2020 8:12:15 GMT
I'm now not so sure of my yesterday's estimate of where this plastic cruiser is aground. I've just had a butchers at the Humber Rescue website and there are 4 x photo's, including the one Andrew posted yesterday, all of which can be enlarged to show a good bit more of the background detail along the horizon.
On three of the enlarged photo's are what look like the two sets of power lines that cross the Trent either side of Garthorpe Shore Light, . . . which could put the stranded plastic somewhere near the highest part of Middle Sand (now re-named Island Sand) with Henderson Light or West Trent Light roughly on the beam, . . but only if that area of Middle Sand is now drying to 2-3 feet more than when it was surveyed just over 3 x weeks ago, . . and/or if the last couple of tides haven't quite made predicted height.
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Post by JohnV on Jun 21, 2020 8:49:26 GMT
Just been on the phone to the tug skipper, he didn't get a call last night and says the AIS shows them (H.R.) back at the marina so presumably Humber Rescue got them off on that tide.
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Post by duncan on Jun 21, 2020 9:29:41 GMT
I'm now not so sure of my yesterday's estimate of where this plastic cruiser is aground. I've just had a butchers at the Humber Rescue website and there are 4 x photo's, including the one Andrew posted yesterday, all of which can be enlarged to show a good bit more of the background detail along the horizon. On three of the enlarged photo's are what look like the two sets of power lines that cross the Trent either side of Garthorpe Shore Light, . . . which could put the stranded plastic somewhere near the highest part of Middle Sand (now re-named Island Sand) with Henderson Light or West Trent Light roughly on the beam, . . but only if that area of Middle Sand is now drying to 2-3 feet more than when it was surveyed just over 3 x weeks ago, . . and/or if the last couple of tides haven't quite made predicted height. They have posted new pictures of them getting her refloated on this mornings tide. In the background are 2 wind generators which may help in identifying the location.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2020 9:37:35 GMT
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jun 21, 2020 22:44:56 GMT
I'm now not so sure of my yesterday's estimate of where this plastic cruiser is aground. I've just had a butchers at the Humber Rescue website and there are 4 x photo's, including the one Andrew posted yesterday, all of which can be enlarged to show a good bit more of the background detail along the horizon. On three of the enlarged photo's are what look like the two sets of power lines that cross the Trent either side of Garthorpe Shore Light, . . . which could put the stranded plastic somewhere near the highest part of Middle Sand (now re-named Island Sand) with Henderson Light or West Trent Light roughly on the beam, . . but only if that area of Middle Sand is now drying to 2-3 feet more than when it was surveyed just over 3 x weeks ago, . . and/or if the last couple of tides haven't quite made predicted height. They have posted new pictures of them getting her refloated on this mornings tide. In the background are 2 wind generators which may help in identifying the location. Yes, . . the wind turbines do provide a definite fix, . . they're on the North shore between Brough airfield and North Ferriby, not far from where Capper's Jetty was. Looking at ABP's current Upper Humber chart, yesterday's photo's, and the three on Humber Rescue's 'Tweet' from this morning, I'm pretty sure now that where the cruiser grounded was very close to the spot where Cook's tanker Lapwing . C (the incident mentioned in the opening post on page 1 of this thread) grounded early on a big Spring Flood and was rolled over by the tide in 1961. The location is about 200 yards WSW of Middle Whitton Float where there's a drying height of 3.0m's marked on the ABP chart, . . and that wouldn't leave more than, at best, 2'-3' of water over that sand there at local HW (around 1815 - 1820) on the Friday evening's tide when the cruiser probably grounded with the smallish tide making a bit under prediction - 6.63m on the EA gauge at Victoria Pier. It looks to me as though they were outbound and left the (Red) Middle Whitton Float quite a long way to port instead of leaving it to starboard and passing no more than 50-60 yards to the NE of it as they should have done.
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Post by JohnV on Jun 22, 2020 5:59:46 GMT
Following on from the excellent posts by TonyDunkley concerning navigating the Humber, Trent or Ouse area.
If any are seriously considering navigating this area then they should be aware that Associated British Ports offer a free download service for the commercially navigated sections. (upgraded continuously.)
It is very common in many areas to play fast and loose with the buoyage system, cutting corners etc when on a small craft. ..... definitely not a good idea on the Humber, sometimes the buoys marking the shipping channel are VERY close to a shallow area.
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Post by freewind on Jun 25, 2020 20:23:07 GMT
In a CWDF topic entitled - "Narrowboat from South Ferriby lock questions" - these are the questions being asked : "What's the best time to leave the lock at South Ferriby? South or North of Read's Island? Roughly how long to get to Keadby? Is there a floating pontoon in the Trent at Keadby to moor up to for the night, or is it best to pass through the lock and wait until the next day? How long to transit from Keadby to Torksey? Can this be done in one leg or is it best to stop at West Stockwith? Any other advice and pitfalls to avoid would be gratefully accepted."
_______________________________________________________________ There is in fact something else, concerning the safety of the boat and it's crew, that the poster should be made aware of, . . and it comes under "other advice and pitfalls". Narrow beam canal pleasure craft are inherently rather unstable, and if grounded sideways on to a fast running rising tide, even for only for a matter of a few seconds, the probability that they will be rolled over by the force of the tide is alarmingly high ! Today's typical narrow beam steel canalboat is very definitely not the ideal sort of vessel for the Humber, or the lower reaches of the two rivers that merge to form it, . . the Ouse and the Trent, especially in the hands of anyone unfamiliar with these waters. Thanks to their design and construction - flat bottomed, square chined, as deep (height from bottom plating to cabin top) as they are wide, and generally with both cabins and hulls all made from steel - giving them a high Centre of Gravity, their transverse stability is seriously inadequate for situations which could well develop if they find themselves being pushed hard upriver by a powerful Flood tide in the vicinity of mud and sand banks. Anyone inclined to doubt or question this should look up the report of the Board of Trade inquiry into the loss of the "Lapwing-C" on Whitton Sand, in the river Humber, in 1961. "Lapwing" was loaded with Gas Oil for Nottingham and had left the oil jetties at Hull early on a big Spring tide. When "Lapwing" passed the Tide Board on Chalderness Light it was read as showing that the tide had made enough for the tanker barge to take the short-cut across Whitton Ness, instead of going all the way round through the deepwater channel that in those days passed very close to the Northern shore at Brough. Despite the depth that was believed to be showing on the Chalderness Tide Board, "Lapwing" grounded somewhere between Sister and Whitton Ness Marks/Lights, swung round athwart the tide and capsized. If a big tide in the Humber can do that to a loaded 16' beam x 7' depth (deck to bottom plating) tanker, . . it doesn't take too much imagination to figure out what big tides are capable of doing to a narrow beam canalboat of around 7' beam x 7' depth, and a mere fraction of the loaded tanker's displacement.
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Post by freewind on Jun 25, 2020 20:31:18 GMT
I am glad that you posted this Tony. I read the op's question on CWF and sent him a PM suggesting that he post his query on here for your attention. Sent him a PM because I didn't want to get into trouble on CWF for suggesting TB or you. I don't know if the OP has been on TB.
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Post by duncan on Jul 22, 2020 21:32:20 GMT
It's becoming a habit. Humber Rescue out again in a similar area as before. Hope the link works;
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 0:35:31 GMT
Oops
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jul 23, 2020 5:29:34 GMT
Looks from that steep-to sand and mud edge as though that thing's probably been parked on the remains of Reads Island. Why am I not surprised that it's a very similar sort of boat to the one that pulled off a similar sort of stunt a short while ago ? I think, in general, the design and style of boats says an awful lot about the sort of people who buy them.
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 23, 2020 7:30:27 GMT
That’s a great photo for demonstrating the dire consequences of partially running aground. At least the boat in question had the sense to fully run aground!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 7:41:28 GMT
I don't do tidal as I've said before ... but are these type of groundings caused by boaters not using up to date charts or just people blindly going where they shouldn't ?
Rog
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Post by JohnV on Jul 23, 2020 8:39:13 GMT
probably a bit of both Rog.
The Humber is a difficult river, much more so than most and the beloved chart plotters of many leisure boaters does not show anything other than the ouitline of the river above the Humber bridge.
Charts of the Humber can be got on line from ABP but I don't know how many do so (fresh updates are issued monthly)
Professionals occasionally get caught out in these waters so it is not really unexpected that amateurs will
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 8:52:55 GMT
Thanks ... I have heard before that the sand banks on some rivers can move quite speedily and regularly, but it always appears to be leisure craft getting grounded ... from your comment I presume it's a lack of up to date knowledge or a disinclination to seek up to date knowledge which catches out the unwary.
Rog
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