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Post by naughtyfox on Oct 3, 2016 17:31:57 GMT
Hullo Graham - this is your boat Clarence - you posted the sales brochure for it and everyone here said what a nice boat. I've never been to Rugby Boats (at Weedon Bec on the Grand Union Canal, between Blisworth & Braunston tunnels) and have not met Dominic Miles the owner so can't give a personal opinion - however, a run through the Internet turns up nothing obviously bad about this chap.
I feel more on your side, as here on Thunderboat you seem to be quite an OK sort of person. The state of your boat (from the sales ad) shows that you are neat and tidy and 'normal'.
I'm with you in that it is unforgiveable that whilst at a brokers, the boat has been mistreated. It's still yours until sold, and others' property should be respected as much as is possible. The list of wrongs you state such as leaving covers rolled up, doors unlocked, and the main switch on so that the battery/ies have become depleted simply verges on neglicency.
The communication seems to be unprofessional. If the contract you had between yourselves and Rugby Boats has been broken deliberately by them, then sueing them (Small Claims Court?) could be a step in the right direction.
Bassplayer says: "Even those with good intentions can get it wrong sometimes."
I say to this: "I got a telephone call, very aggressive basically saying I have been boating for 30 years and I do it my way and I am cancelling the contract remove your boat. I asked for that in writing to which he replied no. As later became apparent he thought that because the boat was unlicensed and on their trade plates and plus the bother of finding another broker I would be subdued and ignore the failures." THAT IS HARDLY "getting it wrong" !!
My take on this at the moment is to be wary of Rugby Boats from now on. I remain, neutral, however, as I don't know the exact details, and we have not heard Dominic's side. If, as you say, the boat was left in such a shocking state, what indeed is their excuse?
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Post by loafer on Oct 3, 2016 19:03:13 GMT
I had occasion to test-fly a boat from Dom at Rugby Boats. As it happened, I didn't rate it very highly and walked away. He was completely gentlemanly about that and wished me well in my search. He used to post on CWDF, but I think he stopped a while ago. He posted useful comments and was well-received, IIRC. I can't believe he has suddenly gone mad and become aggressive. We should get him on here. Please do, seems you don't believe me. It only 'seems'. I have not demonstrated that. I just have good memories of Dom &co.
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Post by Graham on Oct 3, 2016 19:08:40 GMT
Please do, seems you don't believe me. It only 'seems'. I have not demonstrated that. I just have good memories of Dom &co. I have a good memory of how it was previously to signing the contract for brokerage.
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Post by loafer on Oct 3, 2016 19:10:07 GMT
It only 'seems'. I have not demonstrated that. I just have good memories of Dom &co. I have a good memory of how it was previously to signing the contract for brokerage. I have no quarrel.
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Post by Graham on Oct 3, 2016 19:58:43 GMT
Hullo Graham - this is your boat Clarence - you posted the sales brochure for it and everyone here said what a nice boat. I've never been to Rugby Boats (at Weedon Bec on the Grand Union Canal, between Blisworth & Braunston tunnels) and have not met Dominic Miles the owner so can't give a personal opinion - however, a run through the Internet turns up nothing obviously bad about this chap. I feel more on your side, as here on Thunderboat you seem to be quite an OK sort of person. The state of your boat (from the sales ad) shows that you are neat and tidy and 'normal'. I'm with you in that it is unforgiveable that whilst at a brokers, the boat has been mistreated. It's still yours until sold, and others' property should be respected as much as is possible. The list of wrongs you state such as leaving covers rolled up, doors unlocked, and the main switch on so that the battery/ies have become depleted simply verges on neglicency. The communication seems to be unprofessional. If the contract you had between yourselves and Rugby Boats has been broken deliberately by them, then sueing them (Small Claims Court?) could be a step in the right direction. Bassplayer says: "Even those with good intentions can get it wrong sometimes." I say to this: "I got a telephone call, very aggressive basically saying I have been boating for 30 years and I do it my way and I am cancelling the contract remove your boat. I asked for that in writing to which he replied no. As later became apparent he thought that because the boat was unlicensed and on their trade plates and plus the bother of finding another broker I would be subdued and ignore the failures." THAT IS HARDLY "getting it wrong" !!
My take on this at the moment is to be wary of Rugby Boats from now on. I remain, neutral, however, as I don't know the exact details, and we have not heard Dominic's side. If, as you say, the boat was left in such a shocking state, what indeed is their excuse?
Many thanks NF
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Post by patty on Oct 4, 2016 6:18:15 GMT
This topic is a little sensitive for me but I thought perhaps I ought to put my experience. Patty Ann, sadly recently had to be sold for personal reasons. It was decision kinda forced on me and one I will regret for many years...sometimes life is a bitch. I chose Rugby boats due to recommendations over on the other place. My initial meet went ok and when I took her had little sis with me. This time I felt a little uncomfortable as I felt that some of the comments overly critical of my beautiful, much loved, extremely clean and well looked after boat(well except for the hmm scrapes along paintwork)...she was my dream. I guess being as upset as i was i may have been overly sensitive...its easy when you are hurting to see more into a situation...in fact i wanted just to get back on her and leave but little sis with me and well not possible. I didn't get to see her again, she sold and I have no criticism of the way it was handled..they seemed OK, she went to them mid August and when I accepted offer she was lifted from water, blacked and sale through within a week or so..I did not expect it to be that fast. What I'm trying to say in a waffling way is if little sis had not been with me I would have read more into their manner on the day I took her. To me it did seem a bit assertive, but guess they have a business to run. However if I had returned and seen stuff not happy with I would have drawn up a list and given it in writing and ask for an explanation in writing and quite probably I would have moved her. They take on as I see it responsibility for ensuring boat is as left by the owner and should ensure that they check them. Perhaps your experience should serve as warning to people selling boats no matter which Marina/brokers to pop in from time to time to physically check on progress....how many people once they make decision actually return to their boat? I hope your boat sells soon, its awful waiting. part of me kept hoping no one would buy but then i dunno really how else I could sort out the mess.
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Post by Graham on Oct 4, 2016 6:39:30 GMT
This topic is a little sensitive for me but I thought perhaps I ought to put my experience. Patty Ann, sadly recently had to be sold for personal reasons. It was decision kinda forced on me and one I will regret for many years...sometimes life is a bitch. I chose Rugby boats due to recommendations over on the other place. My initial meet went ok and when I took her had little sis with me. This time I felt a little uncomfortable as I felt that some of the comments overly critical of my beautiful, much loved, extremely clean and well looked after boat(well except for the hmm scrapes along paintwork)...she was my dream. I guess being as upset as i was i may have been overly sensitive...its easy when you are hurting to see more into a situation...in fact i wanted just to get back on her and leave but little sis with me and well not possible. I didn't get to see her again, she sold and I have no criticism of the way it was handled..they seemed OK, she went to them mid August and when I accepted offer she was lifted from water, blacked and sale through within a week or so..I did not expect it to be that fast. What I'm trying to say in a waffling way is if little sis had not been with me I would have read more into their manner on the day I took her. To me it did seem a bit assertive, but guess they have a business to run. However if I had returned and seen stuff not happy with I would have drawn up a list and given it in writing and ask for an explanation in writing and quite probably I would have moved her. They take on as I see it responsibility for ensuring boat is as left by the owner and should ensure that they check them. Perhaps your experience should serve as warning to people selling boats no matter which Marina/brokers to pop in from time to time to physically check on progress....how many people once they make decision actually return to their boat? I hope your boat sells soon, its awful waiting. part of me kept hoping no one would buy but then i dunno really how else I could sort out the mess. I am glad you manage to sell Patty Ann, I hope you got a good price for her. I think your remarks " my beautiful, much loved, extremely clean and well looked after boat(well except for the hmm scrapes along paintwork)...she was my dream" are the important ones. There does seem to be a lack of care and consideration for the owner, customer service I think it is called maybe they need to go on a course. Once they have a signed contract there was in my case a marked change in the attitude, previous to that it was anything we can do type of thing. I had to go back as she need a couple or area of roof rust dealing with hence my 1st visit. However I have never left a boat moored without visiting once a month, but that is me, but that responsibility does not stop just because she is being sold, once sold then it is up to someone else.
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Post by naughtyfox on Oct 4, 2016 6:39:46 GMT
Not answering e-mails and saying yes you have received it but couldn't be bothered to open it is very rude.
And then blagging you have "30 years boating experience" - who cares? What you need is 30 years of polite, friendly and professional business acumen.
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Post by Graham on Oct 4, 2016 6:47:45 GMT
Not answering e-mails and saying yes you have received it but couldn't be bothered to open it is very rude. And then blagging you have "30 years boating experience" - who cares? What you need is 30 years of polite, friendly and professional business acumen. It is actually worse than that in my opinion. I wrote to them enclosing some documents, sent special delivery, and requiring that they be returned after sight of them. As part of that letter I detailed the complaints after the first visit. The documents were acknowledged and returned the complaint was not mentioned, ignored might be a good word.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2016 9:03:46 GMT
Not answering e-mails and saying yes you have received it but couldn't be bothered to open it is very rude. And then blagging you have "30 years boating experience" - who cares? What you need is 30 years of polite, friendly and professional business acumen. It is actually worse than that in my opinion. I wrote to them enclosing some documents, sent special delivery, and requiring that they be returned after sight of them. As part of that letter I detailed the complaints after the first visit. The documents were acknowledged and returned the complaint was not mentioned, ignored might be a good word. So what are you going to do about Rugby boats now? What are you hoping to achieve from the dispute?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2016 9:25:26 GMT
Just to add...
When I suggested moving to another broker you said...
"Only trouble with changing broker is they have a 3 month contract and if you break it it costs the commission. So what would you do? ')"
After suggesting persuasion you then tell us you have already moved the boat anyway. Are they going after you for breaking the contract? Or not? How's things been left betwen you since moving the boat?
Just wondering how many worms are yet to come out of the tin. Although I've met Dom a few times breifly and hear mainly good things about Rugby boats, I'm trying to stay neutral here.
Has anyone else here had a bad experience with them?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2016 10:39:34 GMT
Well all I can say is that my experience of both buying and selling through Rugby Boat Sales was completely different.
Some minor inaccuracies in the brochure which made the boat sound slightly better specd. than it was were corrected when I contacted them.
As for sticking to contracts, well in our case I am glad they did. We had a buyer make an offer and pay a deposit, but then seemingly because the hadn't fully investigated the true costs of boat ownership pull out.
Dominic stuck to the contract of the buyer and he forfeited his deposit the majority of which came to us as my contract with RBS. So I for one am glad he does stick to contracts.
As for comments about boats coming in for brokerage, yes I had to accept some criticism too, our cabin paintwork was very faded and the gunwales, particularly at the stern were badly scratched and we had two nasty scratches on the bow flashes and a scratch right through the sign writing acquired on a very windy day on a River Trent lock landing pontoon. This and a couple of other issues meant I had to accept that unless the work was done it would make the boat appear less attractive. Dominic was simply being honest. I guess by now I had already emotionally detached myself from the boat so was looking at this now as a pure 'business' decision and a means to raise funds for our next set of adventures.
The work required was relatively minor and actually didn't cost that much to resolve in the end so it was done before it went on brokerage.
I can't comment on how well the boat was cared for whilst it was at Stowe Hill wharf because we never saw the boat again in the flesh after Matty40,s collected it from Pollington to take it to RBS. When the boat sold the money landed in our account a day or so after the buyer paid their final balance.
The purpose of this post is not to dispute what Graham has said about his experience, but rather to outline my experiences with RBS. As one of the many people who have recomended them in the past I feel my reasons for doing so need to be outlined. We have dealt with them twice and never had reason for complaint.
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 4, 2016 11:00:39 GMT
I had occasion to test-fly a boat from Dom at Rugby Boats. As it happened, I didn't rate it very highly and walked away. He was completely gentlemanly about that and wished me well in my search. He used to post on CWDF, but I think he stopped a while ago. He posted useful comments and was well-received, IIRC. I can't believe he has suddenly gone mad and become aggressive. We should get him on here. Please do, seems you don't believe me. No, I don't think anybody disbelieves you, however with the best will in the world one person's take on a situation will differ from another person's take. That's the only reason why we'd like to hear the other side of the picture. ive never sold a boat but I imagine it's nearly as stressful as selling a house and just possibly, that stress is causing some over-sensitivity. My concern would be that if you are this dissatisfied with what up to now has been a very reputable broker, are you actually going to find a broker that satisfies your requirements? But then again maybe it was just an unlucky turn and yes, it's not too unreasonable to expect your boat to be properly closed up after a viewing! Clearly relations between you and the broker have broken down for whatever reason and thus, moving to a different broker is absolutely the right thing to do.
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Post by Graham on Oct 4, 2016 11:30:06 GMT
So what are you going to do about Rugby boats now? What are you hoping to achieve from the dispute? Oct 4, 2016 5:25:26 GMT 1 bassplayer said: Just to add... When I suggested moving to another broker you said... "Only trouble with changing broker is they have a 3 month contract and if you break it it costs the commission. So what would you do? ')" After suggesting persuasion you then tell us you have already moved the boat anyway. Are they going after you for breaking the contract? Or not? How's things been left betwen you since moving the boat? Just wondering how many worms are yet to come out of the tin. Although I've met Dom a few times breifly and hear mainly good things about Rugby boats, I'm trying to stay neutral here. Has anyone else here had a bad experience with them? I am sorry you did not really think I would ask on a public forum for advice where that advice could be seen by the other side. Also you seem surprise that I would have move her before I posted and at the first chance to get my boat to a place that in my opinion was a safer and better place for her. That is what I did. Also I would not ask or mention the matter on a public forum until such time that my boat was removed and in a safe place. I might email people for advice. BTW the title of this thread is “What would you do?”, not what do you think I should do. By cancelling and thus breaking the contract the brokerage removed all and any liabilities from me. But to be absolutely sure my letter stated “I refer to our telephone conversation today at **:** hours during which you decided to cancel the brokerage contract between us …” “I am quite happy to cancel that contract but the cancellation will be complete and there will be no liabilities for any fees either now or in the future no matter to whom she is sold.” Note I did not remove any liabilities the broker had nor relinquish any rights I had. As to what next regarding the broker I have yet to decide and I do not have to be in a hurry to maker that decision. Think from memory I have three years, if court action is what you are thinking about. I think Patty’s comments could be relevant. Most people who have a bad experience rare speak about them thus the general populace does not get to hear about them. Whether that is because of shame or fear I do not know, that in my opinion is the reason why things rarely surface.
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Post by Graham on Oct 4, 2016 11:40:33 GMT
Please do, seems you don't believe me. No, I don't think anybody disbelieves you, however with the best will in the world one person's take on a situation will differ from another person's take. That's the only reason why we'd like to hear the other side of the picture. ive never sold a boat but I imagine it's nearly as stressful as selling a house and just possibly, that stress is causing some over-sensitivity. My concern would be that if you are this dissatisfied with what up to now has been a very reputable broker, are you actually going to find a broker that satisfies your requirements? But then again maybe it was just an unlucky turn and yes, it's not too unreasonable to expect your boat to be properly closed up after a viewing! Clearly relations between you and the broker have broken down for whatever reason and thus, moving to a different broker is absolutely the right thing to do. As I cannot magic up that brokerage I cannot help with your wish. As you say moving to another broker was the correct thing to do. That broker was told of the problems before take on the boat. That brokerage even gave me a lift to collect her whilst my car stayed at the end of the move. So far everything has gone OK and I do not expect any problems. ETA I do not think it is being over sensitive to be extremely upset to find one's boat not secured and protected from the weather. Interestingly that very act invalidates the insurance policy to the best of my knowledge and had something happened they would have been unlikely to payout.
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