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Post by Higgs on May 22, 2016 10:08:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 10:20:19 GMT
I give you an example from yesterday,I own a three bed terrace here in Milton Keynes which when I am not on the boat I live in.£165000 18 months ago £230,000 now.In what way can that be sustainable ? and who is it serving? I read last week that 100% mortgages have returned,this is a financial cancer thats killing us all.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 22, 2016 10:31:12 GMT
Pitchforks to Downing Street!
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 10:39:11 GMT
OK - so cameron lies... they all do... WE all do - it's called politics and diplomacy for a reason... but surely they know more about the complex world of macro economics than the rest of us do? - don't they?
I think I'm still back to my coin on 23rd June ;-)
Do you really think that your parents, who've paid their mortgage off, are responsible for the fact that you and your generation are faced with the uncertainties you are. I've emphasized the line that is you making a mistake. In the face of all of your doubts about the honesty of politicians and the advantage that the lenders are playing by their self serving clauses, you are still willing to make excuses for them. It isn't an uncommon position.
My own boating protest is that CRT are playing a self-serving position and forcing people in marinas to pay for a boat licence. They wave a law at the marinas and dictate the conditions of the NAA. The marinas wave their paltry T&C's at the boater and have no law backing their enforcement. You can interpret what you see.
What guarantees do you have that the EU will serve you any better than not being in it. Your kids, if you have any, may ask you where their vote went.
I'm no economist, but huge companies being able to skive off paying tax into the countries they are making wads off seems to me to just about sum up how you'll be treated as a voter in the EU. They take, you give, that's the way - it suits them, they have the power, too. They want even more, there's no end to the greedy farts grasping for power and more fortune.
"Many of our friends are so blinkered, looking back at rose coloured memories of times before Europe. I'm not sure if they are able to look rationally at the potential for economic disaster and instability - the crash of 2008 will seem like a walk in the park compared to riots on the streets."
The riots in the street is a precursor to more riots and discontent. You've seen a financial crash in 2008, kicked off when banks like Northern Rock could no longer sell on their debts. The financial players finally came to the end of their little scam. The EU is another scam. But, please go on believing in the institutions that in most peoples' minds should be upright and ethical. Just ditch the upright and ethical pre conditions. That way, you won't be disappointed.
In being older, I suppose it is easier to see one promise after another being broken and, though I may have been more sympathetic to your view when I was 25, in the belief that people in power must know more than me and know what they're doing, that is nowhere near what I think now. You don't need to know the innards of a car, but when it's tested you tell usually tell when one's a pig in a poke. Cosmetics can deceive.
Quaysider is one of those blokes that Economists refer to as the "Squeezed Middle" and finding him a genuine bloke I suspect he may even agree with that description. I don't believe he like many people understand the arguments for and against European Membership and the media haven't aided that understanding either. Its a case of preferring the Status Quo to any uncertainty real or imagined, and reading his post it seems to me he perhaps really wants to be out but is looking to find reassurance that his worries are all groundless and until he does he is in.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 22, 2016 10:48:08 GMT
I give you an example from yesterday,I own a three bed terrace here in Milton Keynes which when I am not on the boat I live in.£165000 18 months ago £230,000 now.In what way can that be sustainable ? and who is it serving? I read last week that 100% mortgages have returned,this is a financial cancer thats killing us all. I think anybody buying at today's prices is going to face enormous problems if and when interest rates rise. Just a 1% rise on a £200,000 mortgage equates to a £165 a month increase in interest payments, and a rise of 3-4% over the next few years is not unlikely. The whole housing market has gone berserk, it seems.
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Post by Higgs on May 22, 2016 11:56:13 GMT
Quaysider is one of those blokes that Economists refer to as the "Squeezed Middle" and finding him a genuine bloke I suspect he may even agree with that description. I don't believe he like many people understand the arguments for and against European Membership and the media haven't aided that understanding either. Its a case of preferring the Status Quo to any uncertainty real or imagined, and reading his post it seems to me he perhaps really wants to be out but is looking to find reassurance that his worries are all groundless and until he does he is in.
The youngsters of today are in a place that is full of technological advances, some of it gets on my wick, but that's beside the point. There is hardly anyone at work that I can talk to. A couple of square inches of screen is their world. They're not supposed to have phones on the shop floor, but they're at it furtively all day long. They are transfixed by their toys. Masses of trivia. It's just a fact that the older members of staff are more productive than alot of the youngsters.
Maybe some of us older ones are paying attention to what is around us. I don't think that many at work are actually thinking about the EU. Quaysider is probably in a minority of younger people who take any interest in the EU at all.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 22, 2016 12:58:50 GMT
It's The Matrix coming to life! Keep their minds occupied thinking they are in 'the real world' whilst all we need is their body heat to produce electricity. Nobody reads books on my bus, they're all clutching their mobile phones. Meanwhile bus driver has his two hands on the steering wheel and is forced to live in the real world - until it's time to come home and enter the surreality of this den!
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 14:58:25 GMT
Quaysider is one of those blokes that Economists refer to as the "Squeezed Middle" and finding him a genuine bloke I suspect he may even agree with that description. I don't believe he like many people understand the arguments for and against European Membership and the media haven't aided that understanding either. Its a case of preferring the Status Quo to any uncertainty real or imagined, and reading his post it seems to me he perhaps really wants to be out but is looking to find reassurance that his worries are all groundless and until he does he is in.
The youngsters of today are in a place that is full of technological advances, some of it gets on my wick, but that's beside the point. There is hardly anyone at work that I can talk to. A couple of square inches of screen is their world. They're not supposed to have phones on the shop floor, but they're at it furtively all day long. They are transfixed by their toys. Masses of trivia. It's just a fact that the older members of staff are more productive than alot of the youngsters.
Maybe some of us older ones are paying attention to what is around us. I don't think that many at work are actually thinking about the EU. Quaysider is probably in a minority of younger people who take any interest in the EU at all.
I think your probably right about Quaysider being in the minority,but isn't it strange when you think about how things have changed from the sixties, back then it was the youth rebelling against the status quo while the older generation urged caution,now the roles are reversed.Its only when you think even further you realise its those same sixties kids still rebelling as pensioners.That makes me smile.What a great country we are.
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Post by PaulG2 on May 22, 2016 16:01:37 GMT
As I'm discussing this and openly asking people's opinions in real life about this, I'm finding more and more of the older ones - the ones who are ALREADY financially secure, who've already made their money from good pension pots and massively inflated house prices... the ones who really don't need to worry about the value of THEIR homes (as their - in comparison tiny mortgages have LONG since been paid off) ARE keen to exit. Our parents are respectfullly included in this! <snip> I'm NOT pro EU but I do have to stand by my decision and vote. I voted tory but hoped for another coalition - the lib dems did act as a conscience and deserve more credit for the good they did last time round. OK - so cameron lies... they all do... WE all do - it's called politics and diplomacy for a reason... but surely they know more about the complex world of macro economics than the rest of us do? - don't they? I think I'm still back to my coin on 23rd June ;-) First of all, good on you for taking responsibility and voting. I say that because, quite honestly, I think you are being naive and foolish in your political thinking and you should know I'm being critical of your thinking, not of you. To begin with, you need to understand that chances are very good that you will never be another Bill Gates, so you really have no reason to support conservative political philosophy. You have been led to believe that what is good for business is good for you, but that simply is not true. What's good for small business (as defined, fewer than around 200 employees), is good for you. What's good for domestic business is sometimes good for you and what is good for multi-nationals is almost always bad for you. When I was growing up in Southern California in the 1950's and 1960's, almost all service work like janitors, custodians, construction laborers etc was done by blacks. For the most part, neighborhoods were segregated and the vast majority of blacks lived in Los Angeles city neighborhoods. My grandmother's best friend was black and I would sometimes go with my nana to visit her friend. The black neighborhoods had smaller houses than where I lived, maybe 700 sq.ft. instead of the 1,100 we luxuriated in, but the neighborhoods were nicely kept and there was a high incidence of home ownership. Back then, before our societies became based on greed, even a janitor could afford a home, a car and a vacation (holiday) each year. In the late 1970's and early 1980's conservative politics took over with Thatcher and Reagan and suddenly we were on the fast track to corporate governance of the world. Since the 1980's wages for all working people have decreased significantly, if they can find jobs, while corporate profits and the vast personal wealth of the privileged few has increased dramatically. Now you tell me, which world would you prefer to live in - the one where even the custodian can afford a home and a comfortable life, or the one you have now where life is a constant struggle, and your prospects for the future are that there will be more overcrowding and more competition for jobs and more downward pressure on wages and more upward pressure on housing prices? For many years now multi-nationals have raped this planet and its people so that 1% of the population can be wealthy beyond imagination. They have done this with and through the cooperation of conservative governments and crooked politicians of all parties. The only way that the common folk, and that includes almost all of us who have net worths of less than hundreds of millions of dollars, will ever prosper again is by reclaiming that wealth from the 1% and distributing it to the people who actually do the work that produces the wealth. The only way that you are ever going to accomplish that goal is to vote liberal and socialist, and to get your arse out of the EU because being in the EU means that you are under corporate control. The things you fear the most in this world are the result of corporate control, yet you are afraid to relinquish corporate control because you don't know what will happen. That doesn't make sense.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 22, 2016 16:07:08 GMT
Excellent post! Only you mentioned Thatcher:
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 16:34:44 GMT
As I'm discussing this and openly asking people's opinions in real life about this, I'm finding more and more of the older ones - the ones who are ALREADY financially secure, who've already made their money from good pension pots and massively inflated house prices... the ones who really don't need to worry about the value of THEIR homes (as their - in comparison tiny mortgages have LONG since been paid off) ARE keen to exit. Our parents are respectfullly included in this! <snip> I'm NOT pro EU but I do have to stand by my decision and vote. I voted tory but hoped for another coalition - the lib dems did act as a conscience and deserve more credit for the good they did last time round. OK - so cameron lies... they all do... WE all do - it's called politics and diplomacy for a reason... but surely they know more about the complex world of macro economics than the rest of us do? - don't they? I think I'm still back to my coin on 23rd June ;-) First of all, good on you for taking responsibility and voting. I say that because, quite honestly, I think you are being naive and foolish in your political thinking. First of all, you need to understand that chances are very good that you will never be another Bill Gates, so you really have no reason to support conservative political philosophy. You have been led to believe that what is good for business is good for you, but that simply is not true. What's good for small business (as defined, fewer than around 200 employees), is good for you. What's good for domestic business is sometimes good for you and what is good for multi-nationals is almost always bad for you. When I was growing up in Southern California in the 1950's and 1960's, almost all service work like janitors, custodians, construction laborers etc was done by blacks. For the most part, neighborhoods were segregated and the vast majority of blacks lived in Los Angeles city neighborhoods. My grandmother's best friend was black and I would sometimes go with my nana to visit her friend. The black neighborhoods had smaller houses than where I lived, maybe 700 sq.ft. instead of the 1,100 we luxuriated in, but the neighborhoods were nicely kept and there was a high incidence of home ownership. Back then, before our societies became based on greed, even a janitor could afford a home, a car and a vacation (holiday) each year. In the late 1970's and early 1980's conservative politics took over with Thatcher and Reagan and suddenly we were on the fast track to corporate governance of the world. Since the 1980's wages for all working people have decreased significantly, if they can find jobs, while corporate profits and the vast personal wealth of the privileged few has increased dramatically. Now you tell me, which world would you prefer to live in - the one where even the custodian can afford a home and a comfortable life, or the one you have now where life is a constant struggle, and your prospects for the future are that there will be more overcrowding and more competition for jobs and more downward pressure on wages and more upward pressure on housing prices. For many years now multi-nationals have raped this planet and its people so that 1% of the population can be wealthy beyond imagination. They have done this with and through the cooperation of conservative governments and crooked politicians of all parties. The only way that the common folk, and that includes almost all of us who have net worths of less than hundreds of millions of dollars, will ever prosper again is by reclaiming that wealth from the 1% and distributing it to the people who actually do the work that produces the wealth. The only way that you are ever going to accomplish that goal is to vote liberal and socialist, and to get your arse out of the EU because being in the EU means that you are under corporate control. The things you fear the most in this world are the result of corporate control, yet you are afraid to relinquish corporate control because you don't know what will happen. That doesn't make sense. A great post Paul,I really enjoyed that.California in the 50s and 60s wow.I used to read a lot about that,Haight Ashbury,Ken Kesey,Tom Wolf,Hunter Thomson,Tom Wolf I really enjoyed.
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Post by PaulG2 on May 22, 2016 17:06:02 GMT
A great post Paul,I really enjoyed that.California in the 50s and 60s wow.I used to read a lot about that,Haight Ashbury,Ken Kesey,Tom Wolf,Hunter Thomson,Tom Wolf I really enjoyed. I graduated from high school in 1968 and immediately started attending University of San Francisco, a nice, conservative Jesuit university just across the panhandle from "The Haight", as it was called then. By 1969 I had an apartment right on the corner of Haight Street and Ashbury Avenue.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 22, 2016 17:11:37 GMT
First of all, good on you for taking responsibility and voting. I say that because, quite honestly, I think you are being naive and foolish in your political thinking and you should know I'm being critical of your thinking, not of you. To begin with, you need to understand that chances are very good that you will never be another Bill Gates, so you really have no reason to support conservative political philosophy. You have been led to believe that what is good for business is good for you, but that simply is not true. What's good for small business (as defined, fewer than around 200 employees), is good for you. What's good for domestic business is sometimes good for you and what is good for multi-nationals is almost always bad for you. When I was growing up in Southern California in the 1950's and 1960's, almost all service work like janitors, custodians, construction laborers etc was done by blacks. For the most part, neighborhoods were segregated and the vast majority of blacks lived in Los Angeles city neighborhoods. My grandmother's best friend was black and I would sometimes go with my nana to visit her friend. The black neighborhoods had smaller houses than where I lived, maybe 700 sq.ft. instead of the 1,100 we luxuriated in, but the neighborhoods were nicely kept and there was a high incidence of home ownership. Back then, before our societies became based on greed, even a janitor could afford a home, a car and a vacation (holiday) each year. In the late 1970's and early 1980's conservative politics took over with Thatcher and Reagan and suddenly we were on the fast track to corporate governance of the world. Since the 1980's wages for all working people have decreased significantly, if they can find jobs, while corporate profits and the vast personal wealth of the privileged few has increased dramatically. Now you tell me, which world would you prefer to live in - the one where even the custodian can afford a home and a comfortable life, or the one you have now where life is a constant struggle, and your prospects for the future are that there will be more overcrowding and more competition for jobs and more downward pressure on wages and more upward pressure on housing prices? For many years now multi-nationals have raped this planet and its people so that 1% of the population can be wealthy beyond imagination. They have done this with and through the cooperation of conservative governments and crooked politicians of all parties. The only way that the common folk, and that includes almost all of us who have net worths of less than hundreds of millions of dollars, will ever prosper again is by reclaiming that wealth from the 1% and distributing it to the people who actually do the work that produces the wealth. The only way that you are ever going to accomplish that goal is to vote liberal and socialist, and to get your arse out of the EU because being in the EU means that you are under corporate control. The things you fear the most in this world are the result of corporate control, yet you are afraid to relinquish corporate control because you don't know what will happen. That doesn't make sense. Yes, have to say I completely agree with this. I've watched my wage decline since the mid 2000's, not just when adjusted, but in real terms, entirely because of our eu membership and the army of workers from the far banks of the Oder who are able to work for eastern European wages as they don't have to pay western European living costs.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 17:29:01 GMT
A great post Paul,I really enjoyed that.California in the 50s and 60s wow.I used to read a lot about that,Haight Ashbury,Ken Kesey,Tom Wolf,Hunter Thomson,Tom Wolf I really enjoyed. I graduated from high school in 1968 and immediately started attending University of San Francisco, a nice, conservative Jesuit university just across the panhandle from "The Haight", as it was called then. By 1969 I had an apartment right on the corner of Haight Street and Ashbury Avenue. where are you based just now Paul?
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Post by naughtyfox on May 22, 2016 17:31:30 GMT
And what is your interest in the inland waterways and canal boats, if I may ask?...
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