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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 16:51:12 GMT
People also fought very hard to be free from servitude. The right to vote is very important but so is the right to be free from servitude.
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Post by kris on Jun 8, 2017 16:52:23 GMT
and how does that make it okay to force people to vote? I don't want to force people to vote. I want the lazy bastards to post a vote or go to the polling station. They are then free to throw away a right that people have fought for. By force of law? Bit judgemental to call all people who don't vote lazy bastards don't you think? I haven't voted today and don't intend to. We are governed by consent, by not voting I'm withdrawing my consent from the political class to govern. If enough people did the same then the basis of their governance would collapse. By voting nothing changes and you are maintaining the status quo. Maybe it is the people who are just voting like sheep who are being lazy. Not using their brains to think of different ways of organising society.
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Post by Delta9 on Jun 8, 2017 16:55:42 GMT
and how does that make it okay to force people to vote? I don't want to force people to vote. I want the lazy bastards to post a vote or go to the polling station. They are then free to throw away a right that people have fought for. I didn't vote, not because I was too lazy, but because I didn't want to vote. None of my relatives ever fought or died to force me to vote, that is nonsense. People have fought for our freedom and that includes the right not to vote. For me, a vote would be acknowledging and legitimising a system that I don't agree with, don't recognise, and want nothing to do with.
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 8, 2017 16:57:24 GMT
and how does that make it okay to force people to vote? I don't want to force people to vote. I want the lazy bastards to post a vote or go to the polling station. They are then free to throw away a right that people have fought for. You have decided why half the country doesn't vote, then insulted them on that basid. Now in desperation you're doing the cheap "fought for" thing because you believe it's top trumps. I could cite better reasons to abstain and I could present a cogent arguement to characterise you as a deluded lacky of the establishment, but despite your constant goading of a huge group of the population who think that people who vote are the lazy ones, unable to face up to the fact they live in a sham democracy,I'll leave it at that.
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 8, 2017 16:59:42 GMT
I don't want to force people to vote. I want the lazy bastards to post a vote or go to the polling station. They are then free to throw away a right that people have fought for. By force of law? Bit judgemental to call all people who don't vote lazy bastards don't you think? I haven't voted today and don't intend to. We are governed by consent, by not voting I'm withdrawing my consent from the political class to govern. If enough people did the same then the basis of their governance would collapse. By voting nothing changes and you are maintaining the status quo. Maybe it is the people who are just voting like sheep who are being lazy. Not using their brains to thing of different ways of organising society. Fuck me! Exactly that, you said so much more clearly than my atempt.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 17:01:08 GMT
I don't want to force people to vote. I want the lazy bastards to post a vote or go to the polling station. They are then free to throw away a right that people have fought for. by not voting I'm withdrawing my consent from the political class to govern. No, you are not. By not voting you are absenting yourself from the democratic process. A democracy does not require the consent of people who don't exercise their right to vote.
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Post by kris on Jun 8, 2017 17:03:32 GMT
By force of law? Bit judgemental to call all people who don't vote lazy bastards don't you think? I haven't voted today and don't intend to. We are governed by consent, by not voting I'm withdrawing my consent from the political class to govern. If enough people did the same then the basis of their governance would collapse. By voting nothing changes and you are maintaining the status quo. Maybe it is the people who are just voting like sheep who are being lazy. Not using their brains to thing of different ways of organising society. Fuck me! Exactly that, you said so much more clearly than my atempt. i don't know you said it pretty clearly as well.
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 8, 2017 17:07:47 GMT
Fuck me! Exactly that, you said so much more clearly than my atempt. i don't know you said it pretty clearly as well. Calmly was the missing word. I was getting a bit grrrr.
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 8, 2017 17:12:19 GMT
by not voting I'm withdrawing my consent from the political class to govern. No, you are not. By not voting you are absenting yourself from the democratic process. A democracy does not require the consent of people who don't exercise their right to vote. Go and read what a parliamentary democracy is. Once elected they can do what they like. They only pay lip service to some pledges to stand a hope of getting elected next time, they don't have to.
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Post by kris on Jun 8, 2017 17:14:26 GMT
by not voting I'm withdrawing my consent from the political class to govern. No, you are not. By not voting you are absenting yourself from the democratic process. A democracy does not require the consent of people who don't exercise their right to vote. how do you know what I'm doing by not voting? So now your telling me what I'm doing? By not taking part in the system of voting I'm not giving it any credence. We are governed by consent ( I suggest you look into this) well I don't give the professional political class consent to govern me ( no matter what flavour) I think there are better ways of organising society. It's about time we started thinking about different ways of doing things. By buying into the illusion of having power (voting every 5years or so) you are propping up an immoral and corrupt system.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 17:14:38 GMT
I don't want to force people to vote. I want the lazy bastards to post a vote or go to the polling station. They are then free to throw away a right that people have fought for. I didn't vote, not because I was too lazy, but because I didn't want to vote. None of my relatives ever fought or died to force me to vote, that is nonsense. People have fought for our freedom and that includes the right not to vote. For me, a vote would be acknowledging and legitimising a system that I don't agree with, don't recognise, and want nothing to do with. I really don't care if you vote or not, but I want you to make the point at the polling station or by postal vote. Millions of people would love to have a say in how their country is run. I can't understand why you wish to have no say. What does it matter whether or not your family fought for enfranchisement? Other people did. I think you take democracy too much for granted. If we are not careful we will end up living in a totalitarian society. TM is now talking about removing human rights. Do you not find that a bit scary? Many people distrust and despise the people who govern us. But to turn your back on our system of democracy is not going to help, is it?
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Post by Delta9 on Jun 8, 2017 17:19:59 GMT
I didn't vote, not because I was too lazy, but because I didn't want to vote. None of my relatives ever fought or died to force me to vote, that is nonsense. People have fought for our freedom and that includes the right not to vote. For me, a vote would be acknowledging and legitimising a system that I don't agree with, don't recognise, and want nothing to do with. I really don't care if you vote or not, but I want you to make the point at the polling station or by postal vote. You missed my point entirely. I don't recognise the legitimacy of the polling station.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 17:22:07 GMT
No, you are not. By not voting you are absenting yourself from the democratic process. A democracy does not require the consent of people who don't exercise their right to vote. how do you know what I'm doing by not voting? So now your telling me what I'm doing? By not taking part in the system of voting I'm not giving it any credence. We are governed by consent ( I suggest you look into this) well I don't give the professional political class consent to govern me ( no matter what flavour) I think there are better ways of organising society. It's about time we started thinking about different ways of doing things. By buying into the illusion of having power (voting every 5years or so) you are propping up an immoral and corrupt system. Ha Ha. By not voting you are doing nothing. Where do you get this 'we are governed by consent' ? Can you provide a link? If you don't vote, your opinions will not be taken into account. I profoundly disagree with your opinions but they are interesting.
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Post by kris on Jun 8, 2017 17:25:03 GMT
So Kepler you want stop becoming a totalitarian state by forcing people to vote? You don't come across as stupid, so surely you can see the contradiction in that.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Jun 8, 2017 17:32:09 GMT
by not voting I'm withdrawing my consent from the political class to govern. No, you are not. By not voting you are absenting yourself from the democratic process. I disagree. I did vote this time, but in numerous elections I haven't because I didn't believe that any of the candidates had my interest at heart. And in this election I only voted Labour because their leader has a Harold Shipman beard, so how much better are we as a democracy for that?
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